Secondary schools are totally stuffed, WELL-RESPECTED SCIENTISTS ADMIT

[noblegiraffe]

I don't normally get asked for an encore, more usually 'urgh, not another bloody thread', but per a request we have a follow-up to the resoundingly popular:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4078722-Secondary-schools-are-fucked-BOFFINS-ADMIT

Feedback has been received and acted upon re the title so hopefully that will temper the urge to complain.

Quick round-up of where we were at:

1. the infection rate is now highest in secondary school pupils in Y7-11, higher than uni students and sixth formers. They're not catching it at the pub...

2. The government/ONS put out misleading figures to suggest that teachers weren't at higher risk than NHS frontline workers, where actually looking at the data, they may well be. They fudged this by calling the largest group of teachers, who are at higher risk than frontline NHS staff 'teachers of an unknown type' and pretended they were irrelevant.

3. The DfE have changed the format of their attendance statistics report to remove the reference to how many hundreds of thousands of kids are currently isolating due to exposure to covid at school.

4. Boffins are cool

New info: The Guardian reports that teachers are being instructed to ignore app notifications to self-isolate by the school helpline and this might be a bad thing. They can't help themselves though, and have a lovely photo of a socially distanced classroom of lies at the top of the story.

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/nov/16/union-says-teachers-in-england-being-told-to-pause-covid-app-in-school

As I’ve said @Danglingmod, I agree that DC of the CEV should not be expected to attend school. Shielding teachers are not in school throughout the lockdown period.

@DARRPG

hi , never been on here before, Im an older dad (66) with a partner(57) who is an awesome step mum to my Girl aged 15. Her school is like everyone elses it seems ( full of Covid) a girl in her class is now off isolating as Positive, only her Bubble/ table of 4 are off , the girl who is off walks down the hill with my girl every day into the village for pick up, ok shes shouldnt have been walking with her, have you seen the kids coming out of a school , they are kids for gods sake and are not socially distancing. We both have health issues and are at risk, but I dont want to keep her off school , we are sat here waiting to catch it and well aware of the danger to us, I have tried to get a test for her , No- as she isnt showing symptoms, should I lie ? Would you keep her off ? Are we selfish ? My mums 88 and isolating and my ex has 2 little ones and is a front line worker , so if we become ill Im not sure who will look after her , fed up of this Sci-Fi movie !

I would lie and get her a test, yes- for your own peace of mind.

Just bear in mind once you book a test she will need to stay off school until she has a negative result.

Do they think the virus will magically not transmit if there's a seating plan? Fucks sake.

That's exactly what they think. There seems to be this idea that there is a magic nasty circle of a 2 metre circumference measured around infected child and everyone outside of it will be fine. At least in some schools. Other schools use a completely different definition.

It's like the Wild West. Interpret the rules as you see fit.

Placemarking! Thanks for this thread, I missed the other one.

That's exactly what they think. There seems to be this idea that there is a magic nasty circle of a 2 metre circumference measured around infected child and everyone outside of it will be fine. At least in some schools. Other schools use a completely different definition.

It doesn't inspire confidence in the science curriculum, or the maths for that matter does it? The science on this is very, very, very clear. As it is (without masks or distancing or, in some cases, adequate ventilation) classrooms are the perfect environment for spread.

And length of exposure is very important. Being 1m away from someone for 5min outside is almost certainly lower risk than being just over 2m away for an hour inside without ventilation (aerosols, stagnant air...... ). I mean it's obvious surely - do you want to be exposed to the virus from an infected person breathing and talking in an enclosed space continuously for an hour or more even if you're more than 2m away, or outside 1m away for 5 mins, or even 15 mins? I know which risk I'd choose.

There have been a number of people who've said 1m with masks is better than 2m without. I can't be bothered to look up the actual science anymore. It's like arguing about the existence of gravity. Non-believers are never going to believe, seemingly. Shame they're running the DfE.

I ahve just heard a colleague (teacher) was refused a test because he ONLY had a cough. He had no temperature so they wouldn't test him. this was for a keyworker priority test!

there is now tremendous pressure on the remaining teachers

We had a message from your headteacher saying that the exam boards are really concerned about lack of people signing up to mark exams this year and encouraging us to apply. Of the four people I know who normally mark exams, 2 aren't doing it at all and one is only marking one paper rather than her usual two. They just can't cope with the thought of extra work at the end of this (hellish) year. Given that the timescales are even shorter than normal I'd absolutely hate to be in charge of exams right now!

For Hake

www.tes.com/news/share-schools-covid-19-cases-doubles-week

“The proportion of schools with one or more pupils off self-isolating because of a coronavirus case [in school] has almost doubled in the space of a week, new figures reveal.... The DfE has said this was the case in 64 per cent of secondaries last week, up from 38 per cent the week before.”

Bloody hell.

I mean, this is worse than before half term and we’ve still got a month to go. It’s unsustainable.

“attendance in state-funded secondary schools was 83 per cent, down from 87 per cent.”

Will we see any action taken? What does this mean for lockdown?

@thenewaveragebear1983

We were also told yesterday that a child who had moved away from the seating plan on the school bus to sit by her friend was not allowed to isolate because 'we can only go on the seating plan' - so we now have the best friend of a child who's now tested positive who sat by that child every morning last week wandering round school, not allowed to be isolated.

It is frightening in school at the moment, it feels so precarious

And it's this kind of shit that's being pulled to keep the governments party line of "it doesn't spread in schools"

If they’re still going to peddle the line that it doesn’t spread in schools they’re going to have to explain the clear half term dip.

This is interesting about Hull. Well maybe not interesting but very concerning.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-hull-schools-collapse-covid-b1724287.html?fbclid=IwAR2MdIgaPgRCWf8b5TI6Nn4POqIvTVW3UwC6IODW9p6GcUn8i_e6L2SelHE

I don't think they'll explain anything. Just keep chucking dead cats to the media to distract them.

The school guidelines do not stipulate that CEV and CV teachers should not attend school.

@itsgettingweird I know. It's not school, it's the government/dFE etc who make these decisions. The child in question actually got notified by track and trace as thankfully the confirmed case's parents were proactive and put all contacts. But honestly, when you see it from inside the office you realise how many cases like this there actually are.

Four positive cases in two days in my school, hundreds isolating, it really feels like it's ramping up and is totally unsustainable

hake, here are the(current) DfE guidelines for CEV staff:

*All staff can continue to attend school at all Local COVID Alert levels.

In the future, the government will only reintroduce formal restrictive shielding advice in specific local areas at very high alert level with exceptional circumstances where this has been advised by the Chief Medical officer, and only for a limited period of time. The government will write to individuals to inform them if they are advised to follow formal shielding and not attend the workplace.*

Piggy, great article on the first page, she, the prof, notes how the Theatre of hand washing has distracted from this being a respitory virus. Talking, esp face to face is the enemy.

Wearing masks in corridors ignores the reality of being in a room all day.. With people talking..

Cascading info down doesn't work...
There is too much room for heads to interpret what they want... Too much room for teachers to do what they want..
It needs to be clear, doors and windows open, masks in class.. 50 min lessons and 10 min breaks every hour... Schools allow any clothes to ensure the children are warm... And allowed to take anything in to be warm

Expectations are to be lowered on teaching the same before covid. It's a compromise and balance to get through winter, staying Alive and safe and dc in school..

Noble the problem is we simply don't have the blessing of time for our slow, wheels to turn and find the evidence for this, that and the other..
How many months did it take for masks to be given the green light? It will all be over by the time the like of jenny harries say...
We have found some evidence that children's heads move from left to right and in spite of sitting 2 meters apart in olympian size classrooms, the virus can still spread.

I spoke too soon.

My daughter had ONE day with preparation time. She went into today and there is now another batch of teachers off isolating. She was run off her feet again.

Interestingly she is teaching in a mask and hasn't got it yet so it must be providing a level of protection.

Slight tangent, sorry.

"We had a message from your headteacher saying that the exam boards are really concerned about lack of people signing up to mark exams this year and encouraging us to apply."

One reason for this will be the way some of the exam boards treated their markers last year (looking at you, AQA).

And partners of CEV people, Hake? How do they protect their partners if they're still at work in schools/hospitals/care homes?

Hull are begging for rotas as there are not enough key workers able to attend work. www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/17/one-in-four-hull-children-absent-from-school-as-covid-cases-soar