Secondary schools are totally stuffed, WELL-RESPECTED SCIENTISTS ADMIT

[noblegiraffe]

I don't normally get asked for an encore, more usually 'urgh, not another bloody thread', but per a request we have a follow-up to the resoundingly popular:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4078722-Secondary-schools-are-fucked-BOFFINS-ADMIT

Feedback has been received and acted upon re the title so hopefully that will temper the urge to complain.

Quick round-up of where we were at:

1. the infection rate is now highest in secondary school pupils in Y7-11, higher than uni students and sixth formers. They're not catching it at the pub...

2. The government/ONS put out misleading figures to suggest that teachers weren't at higher risk than NHS frontline workers, where actually looking at the data, they may well be. They fudged this by calling the largest group of teachers, who are at higher risk than frontline NHS staff 'teachers of an unknown type' and pretended they were irrelevant.

3. The DfE have changed the format of their attendance statistics report to remove the reference to how many hundreds of thousands of kids are currently isolating due to exposure to covid at school.

4. Boffins are cool

New info: The Guardian reports that teachers are being instructed to ignore app notifications to self-isolate by the school helpline and this might be a bad thing. They can't help themselves though, and have a lovely photo of a socially distanced classroom of lies at the top of the story.

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/nov/16/union-says-teachers-in-england-being-told-to-pause-covid-app-in-school

Mm...I sense an agenda on this thread... are you all teachers?

Well duh. I bet you feel like Sherlock Holmes.

And why wouldn't teachers post on such a thread, the agenda being the safety of their place of work?=

[quote monkeytennis97]www.google.com/amp/s/www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/essex-covid-schools-hit-covid-4717073.amp[/quote]
Can someone explain to me please why complete bubbles were burst in the school in this article. This seems completely different from schools in Hull, the experience of teachers on this thread and that of Dds school, which all remain open. Close contacts only sent home rather than complete bubbles. I’m really confused about the criteria here. For reference, there are cases in 4 of year 7 - 13 groups at Dds school. 250 per year in 7-11.

I think it depends on what PHE advise the HT to do when they call. We only had a year bubble burst if there were 2 cases in 48 hours. Otherwise it was just close contacts sent home.

I am sorry to all education staff on this thread. Unless your are squashed in a corridors surrounded by 100s students. The CO2 alarm in my room going off from all of the breath. Dealing with student anxiety to name a few issues we deal with. Then Some people just aren't going to get it.
Pitiful really.

Yup our contacts are:

DH - school
Me- school

We have our shopping delivered and I wipe it all down with isopropyl alcohol. Not seeing our DC either at the moment.

@FrazzledChip
@SophieB100 ours has always been lovely and as such it's hard to be too critical. Most of the pressure to come in comes from a sense of loyalty and not letting the side down.

The schisms opening up in schools at the minute frighten me almost as much as the virus. We seem to be falling into two camps; those who are still organising the Christmas party and those who are on the verge of a breakdown. It's awful when you discuss your concerns with SLT and they treat you like a small child who needs reassurance that the monsters aren't real. I think they are genuinely trying to be kind but you can't help coming away feeling you've now been labelled as being hysterical.

I'm trying really hard to understand where people are coming from and what motivates their thinking but it's mentally draining. The simple fact of the matter is we all have different situations that effect our attitude to the virus. Some people are living with/caring for vulnerable relatives, some have strong religious faith that seems to free them of all fear, some are young and physically fit, some are struggling with finances, some worry their weight or ethnicity puts them more at risk .... There are literally so many factors that it's impossible to reach a consensus on how to approach things. At the moment the rearranging the deck chairs brigade are winning but a hospitalisation or death could soon tip the balance.
___
^
I agree with you, and understanding what you are saying.
But I think you've actually clarified what is wrong so thank you. So many people are seeing this from different viewpoints, but in Education that is the problem. There should and must be a consistent approach through all schools. Emotions need to be taken out of the picture, and all schools need to follow the same criteria. And they're clearly not.

Our school has had multiple positives over a 4 week period in the same year group. The school is sending just a few of the students home. This obviously doesn't work. They are only looking at seating plans, and not looking at lunchtime mixing/friendship groups, break times. A student was allowed to stay in school despite spending twenty minutes every day with a positive student, sitting next to him at lunchtime. The reason - he sat on the opposite side of the room in all lessons! We teachers, TAs, all know this, and it's beyond daft.
A school less than a mile away has sent home complete year groups and staff, from the first positive case.

Both schools insist that they are following advice from PHE.
How can they be?
I love my job, I don't want schools to close.
I know kids spread the virus and many are asymptomatic. I am happy to teach them, but I feel, like many others, that things could be so much better.

Your comment about "letting the side down" hit home: we constantly get passive aggressive emails implying that we are not doing enough to protect ourselves and the students, and if a teacher has to self isolate, then they are to blame. I am furious about this, because we are doing all we physically can within the constraints of teaching too many kids in inadequate, poorly ventilated spaces. Last week we had three days with no hot water.

Not sure who posted the original comment but no, I'm not a teacher
Not everyone who works in a school is a teacher. Some of us are minimum wage admin clerks, caretakers, cleaners and kitchen staff and we don't even get the "holidays"
There's been more cases among auxiliary staff at our school than there has been among staff, because we work closely in a closed office and we talk on the phone constantly, we see all kids across bubbles and we deal with medical room without proper PPE When I was off sick with Covid I got my work phone delivered to my doorstep and I sat on my living floor to be close enough to the WiFi to enable me to continue working for the entire 10 days.

I cannot think of another minimum wage job where someone would be asked made to work through like that while off sick, but if myself, IT tech, reception manager, finance and business manager had actually all been 'off sick' the entire school would have had to close.

When the head came back this week after his 14 days, triggered by me testing positive, he didn't even ask how I was doing.

@thenewaveragebear1983 that's bloody awful. You were off with confirmed Covid and were expected to work?! Are you in a union? That is disgusting. All school staff should be fighting together for better working conditions, it's a sick state of affairs and divide and rule which is this government's MO is something we all have to fight against. Hope you are ok now.

@monkeytennis97 I'm not in a union. I've only been in the job since September so to be honest, I just did it. I'm recovered now as I had a fairly mild case, but one of our team who was also wfh throughout is now still quite unwell nearly a month down the line.

People don't realise how schools don't just stop. They can't just stop. My kids' school expected me to homeschool my children x 2 x 3hrs a day and submit work, and my own school expected me to work my normal hours. I worked overtime every day. I finish at 1pm- some evenings I was still on my laptop at 5, inputting the names and Covid info for 120 kids we'd sent home to isolate, phoning parents, and organising and administering year 11 mock exams from home so that mocks didn't have to be delayed.

The lockdown relaxation over Christmas is laughable. We have the opportunity to let some steam out of this pressure cooker with a 2 week closure of all schools, kids won't miss a moment of lessons, and instead they are going to choose to allow people to mix, and then send them in to school a week later for school staff to face this onslaught once again.

We must not forget, come election time, that this government does not value teachers or anyone who works in schools

.

You're right.

I think if I don't crack before then, I will crack in January and not be able to work.

The selfishness of the general public and the wickedness of the government in ignoring just how dangerous schools are... And then give everyone a "normal" Christmas so that those of us who are vulnerable or have extremely vulnerable family members are even more in danger? It's reprehensible.

There's an article here about school closures and teacher shortages due to them needing to isolate.
It says "The finding comes as the government launched an “urgent commission” to quiz academy trusts over their Covid protocols"
I'm not a teacher but i really dislike that rather than the government looking at how they can support schools and teachers at this challenging time they seem to be seeking to blame schools. It's so typical of how i think the government treats state schools

schoolsweek.co.uk/teacher-absence-spike-forces-tipping-point-closures/

unmitigated risk of catching a pandemic disease that is killing 500 people a day.

This stood out. Yes, it's completely unmitigated risk when mitigation is possible. (masks, SD, all the things being done in other countries - we've gone through the list and the WHO recommendations many times)

That's the thing that's so awful. Schools and the government are allowing teachers to go to work in unsafe environments where risk COULD be mitigated but ISN'T. It's a CHOICE that people are making. Yes, maybe through fear, but a choice nevertheless.

A choice to risk teachers lives (and the lives of vulnerable parents / family members). It's ridiculous. All children over 6 wear masks in Italy, Spain, France and other countries. That costs virtually nothing.

So much money given to dodgy deals and 'eat out to help out' but none for schools.

The ability of the national media and parents and senior management in schools to deny this reality is unbelievable. It's a TERRIBLE TERRIBLE example to our children.

My daughter's school had halved classes, socially distanced, with extra TAs in the summer. Since Sept it's back to normal. 'Why's it different Mummy?' 'Because the government hasn't given any more money to schools'.

But deaths are increasing? And schools everywhere else in the world are doing masks, SD, rotas?

news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-chris-whitty-says-reopening-of-schools-will-put-pressure-on-the-r-number-12054491

Just revisiting this news article from back in August when the propaganda rubbish regarding schools was in full swing. The headline 'Coronavirus: Children more likely to catch COVID-19 at home than at school, Public Health England study finds' When the research was based on the period where schools were only open to certain year groups. I wonder how many parents have changed their opinion now that we are having so many isolating. 500k school children stuck at home is a very different picture to the scenario painted in these articles.

@thenewaveragebear1983
Absolutely shocking behaviour by your head.
Doesn't surprise me, sadly, but shocking none the less.

Theres a good article - "a room, a bar and a classroom," that is worth looking at for those who aren't teachers or who think only those either aide of the positive child should isoltate. If theres a child with covid in the classroom and has been for hours in crowded, low ventilated, unmasked room then the original idea of sending the bubble home ought to happen.

Im my kids schools its usually been the class sent home, and then other contacts they might have. There's other mysterious absences though.

The whole year only got sent home when more were off than in, so for logistical reasons. Then the whole school for a week leading into half term when it was in every year....

Where are the unions on asking for vaccines for teachers? Would most of you teachers/admin staff etc be happy to be vaccinated in the first groups? Because the message is constantly that under 18s won't be vaccinated, at least not in the foreseeable future. So surely this means the virus won't ever go away completely. I am pretty sure independent schools will manage to get hold of vaccines for their staff, one way or another. Just as lots of more vulnerable staff in independent schools are getting extra protection, at least from my own personal experience.

Bloody outrageous, and entirely the consequence of government:

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/nov/21/layoffs-and-bankrupt-schools-headteachers-in-england-warn-of-covid-consequences#comments

My DH works in a private school . He dos not get flu jab. They tried to arrange a deal with Boots but Boots pulled out. He is no more protected than I am and he is clinically vulnerable.

Omg the Guardian has actually found a photo of a real school.

Where??

echt’s link, *piggy
I guess because the story is about a specific school they were allowed to use a current photo.

Another guardian article
www.theguardian.com/education/2020/nov/20/parents-worried-about-covid-forced-to-home-educate-or-face-fines

I hope at some point the Guardian will join the dots in all those articles on separate issues. Cold classrooms, burned out teachers, parents removing kids from school, increasing numbers of kids isolating.

One general thing that has occurred to me:

Earlier in the year, when schools were open but not to all children, they were (pretty much universally in the Press and public opinion) described as 'closed'.

Now, schools are still open, but again not to all children (in comparison to the summer controlled opening to a few year groups in small bubbles, some primaries in particular have FEWER children and certainly fewer staff in now because so many classes have closed), but they are universally described as 'open'.

Interesting.

Hmm hope this isn't cynically exploited as a chance to yet again try and remove the right to home educate again. I he'd ds for a couple of years or so when he was primary age and we lived overseas and had a break from the whole machine.

I think people are often unaware of how many times governments have tried to ban he and how in many European countries it is illegal.