Secondary schools are totally stuffed, WELL-RESPECTED SCIENTISTS ADMIT

[noblegiraffe]

I don't normally get asked for an encore, more usually 'urgh, not another bloody thread', but per a request we have a follow-up to the resoundingly popular:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4078722-Secondary-schools-are-fucked-BOFFINS-ADMIT

Feedback has been received and acted upon re the title so hopefully that will temper the urge to complain.

Quick round-up of where we were at:

1. the infection rate is now highest in secondary school pupils in Y7-11, higher than uni students and sixth formers. They're not catching it at the pub...

2. The government/ONS put out misleading figures to suggest that teachers weren't at higher risk than NHS frontline workers, where actually looking at the data, they may well be. They fudged this by calling the largest group of teachers, who are at higher risk than frontline NHS staff 'teachers of an unknown type' and pretended they were irrelevant.

3. The DfE have changed the format of their attendance statistics report to remove the reference to how many hundreds of thousands of kids are currently isolating due to exposure to covid at school.

4. Boffins are cool

New info: The Guardian reports that teachers are being instructed to ignore app notifications to self-isolate by the school helpline and this might be a bad thing. They can't help themselves though, and have a lovely photo of a socially distanced classroom of lies at the top of the story.

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/nov/16/union-says-teachers-in-england-being-told-to-pause-covid-app-in-school

Well this rather wonderful socialist news outlet gets actual pictures!

www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/11/16/coge-n16.html

They’re just having to engage with the online learning, listen to the podcasts of lectures and catch up when they get back. It’s not ideal but they seem to be muddling through.

They shouldn’t have to settle for muddling through. That’s the point of this thread really. That the government could be doing so much more to ensure this doesn’t need to happen. It’s a shame you are happy to settle for that. Do your students not pay tuition fees?

Just read that New York City has ordered all public schools to switch to remote learning from tomorrow.
www.nytimes.com/2020/11/18/nyregion/nyc-schools-covid.html

piggy/noble: okay, I was just trying... fair point - shouldn't have :)

Came on to say the same about New York schools closing

I read a ny times articles out the schools in NY closing. In high infection areas, the school has to test staff and students weekly. They actually have defined triggers and action points that the follow through on rather than announce then stuff in a drawer somewhere to forget about!

@SansaSnark

I wonder if some schools are deliberately keeping it out of the press. Do schools have to give permission for stories like this, I wonder?

Yes, I’ve been responding, for weeks now, to posters who claim ‘no cases in my school’ - “Why do you think you would know?” - which has gone largely unanswered. Yesterday I googled our local news website that claimed to have the full list of schools on our county that have had positive cases. Our school wasn’t on it , despite having had the first group of students self isolating well before half term, then every week since, different group. Currently half the Year 11s are at home, for at least another week - their mocks start on Monday 🤷‍♀️.

@noblegiraffe

Tweet from the NASUWT chief today "We are receiving reports from members that indicate that local public health teams are advising schools to limit self-isolation to pupils sitting immediately next to a child who has tested positive, rather than applying the requirement to members of the child’s ‘bubble’ or group."

Where the hell have you been since September?! Why is this only being brought up now??

At Christmas we'll get 'we're hearing reports that kids are not 2m apart in classrooms'.

It’s like something out of 1984: We’re having to send many pupils and teachers home. Why are you sending people home? Because they’ve been within 2m of positive cases. Why were they within 2m? The rules state 2m apart. Because we don’t have enough room for them to be 2m apart. Why haven’t you reported this? We have! Arrrrrrggggghhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!

I thought my secondary (closed week before half term) hadnt haď cases since we'd been back. It was only googling and finding the local council had a page of shools with cases that I realised my secondary had cases this week!!!!

Before half term it was in most years but I knew about a few of them through friends. I didnt know about all of them! We only got letter as each yr 7 group was dropping like flies. If I hadnt had friends in other years Id have been oblivious until it reached my year and agreed "oh tier 1 area, everyone in school..." as others have. My primary school seemed unaffected, and when people up thread say "oh my school has good procedures etc etc" I just think they arent affected YET. We have been told about some cases but also have had teachers mysteriously disappear (maybe their own kids isolating?).

I hate the no knowing. Im CV and just want to know. Although theyre probably worried people like me would pull kids out...

I hadn't realised the school wouldnt tell us about all cases, so def aware that most people may be unaware of cases in their school. I also know of a friend of a friend who was tested due to the app with none of the big 3 symptoms. The parents both had it. Friends of the child had similar symptoms...but not the big 3 symptoms so never tested...

Thanks for that post PineappleUpsideDownCake very interesting and I hope lots of posters, journalists and ministers (if possible) read it.

School closures kept confidential in Hertfordshire, month old article but I doubt anything has changed. And for once one of the pictures is of a full classroom.

We have partial closure in dd's school. Four year groups on an alternate day schedule due to 25% of staff self isolating.
www.watfordobserver.co.uk/news/18776026.information-covid-school-closures-hertfordshire-questioned/

Yes, well the director of PH in Herts has just announced that shopping is the number one way that the virus is being spread in Herts. Against all evident to the contrary, it seems.

@Piggywaspushed

Yes, well the director of PH in Herts has just announced that shopping is the number one way that the virus is being spread in Herts. Against all evident to the contrary, it seems.

I posted up thread that a couple of days ago (Monday I think) the Director of PH in Kent , commenting on the local news regarding the massive increase in numbers here, stated (paraphrasing) ‘We’ve seen it’s the young people who get it first and pass it to the working age people who then pass it to the elderly’ - I thought at the time whoa! he’s said it mow, there’ll be outrage! Nope. Nothing. 🤷‍♀️ This may be because the piece was immediately followed up by a local council head stating rising numbers are down to people not wearing masks and breaking lockdown 🤦‍♀️. I’m getting the latest local paper this morning to see if anyone has picked up on it.

@Piggywaspushed

Yes, well the director of PH in Herts has just announced that shopping is the number one way that the virus is being spread in Herts. Against all evident to the contrary, it seems.

I read this article from a local paper a week or so ago. Such a misleading headline as reading the article is was infact Education and shopping that were the leading places for infections. Further reading show that a cross Hertforshire it was Education with the highest number of cases. Terrible and misleading reporting.

www.hillingdontimes.co.uk/news/18854730.covid-19-watford-coronavirus-driven-shopping/

Our secondary is a right state now. I want the option of home or blended learning until local rates go down.

The dcs' secondary had had about 4-6 spread out individual cases (out of 1400) in different year groups until the end of last week and were sending home direct contacts only. Things can change rapidly though. They've had to shut the sixth form now due to an outbreak and send home another year group due to staff shortages (isolating) Another local secondary has shut completely due to an outbreak. All done after seeking advice from health authorities. We were in the lowest tier prior to national lockdown

I definitely think it's not being reported on properly, there's been no mention of DD's school in our local paper or in the paper that covers the whole county. I don't know if that's the news omitting some schools or the school keeping it quiet. I'm leaning more towards the school keeping it quiet as they are only admitting to 2 cases in DD's year yet she knows of at least 5 in her year who have had positive tests. I don't think it's being done for any reason other than not to panic people as a previous poster has said some parents may pull their kids if they think cases are getting out of control.

I had a quick google search (literally just typed school infections and an area and looked for something from this month) and although I can't be certain how reliable these sources are they seem like local sort of news outlets and it's shocking that the national media is not picking up on it.

www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/coronavirus-rising-children-across-four-19280134

www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk/education/coronavirus-50-cambridgeshire-schools-report-covid-19-cases-in-one-week-9129899/

www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/coronavirus-school-closures-live-covid-18920521

www.salfordstar.com/article.asp?id=5953

www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/revealed-thousands-leicestershire-pupils-school-4701295

I can't believe there are over 14,000 students isolating in Leicestershire and it's pretty much silence from the national media it's ridiculous!

I can’t believe that there are over 14000 students isolating in Leicestershire and it’s pretty much silence from the National media
They don’t know where Leicestershire is
They wouldn’t care about it if they did
They’ve been told schools are safe by Govt and they (still) believe all the official bullshit
14000 is a very small number, no one they know could live on £14000 per year
There are way more interesting stories about, for example, was Diana’s interview on the BBC all those years ago wrongly obtained?

Etc etc

Definitely not being reported on here even in local media - I hear daily of year groups isolating in local secondaries but nothing in the local newspaper. In fact it’s kicking off a bit on FB as parents are very angry there are 6 staff off and they claimed 56 students but actually it’s 125, and they’re very annoyed that this hasn’t been widely reported. Heads in sand all over the place!

@gravityfalls any time anyone dares to question the narrative on our parents' facebook, the admin closes down the comments. It's infuriating. Anyway, in my area, the council yesterday reported that the continued rise in cases was due to..... people not distancing in the supermarket and not wearing masks properly on buses. FFS! They are claiming just 36 cases in secondary schools in the last 2 weeks - are these cases just not being declared? Cos if it's really only 36, then they were all in my DC school.

ARG!!! I'm so mad I need to vent. My school have now decided that the "15 mins within 2m" rule for sending close contacts home doesn't apply to kids sitting 1m behind a positive case. I understand the logic because they aren't face to face but its so annoying when they make up their own rules!

There is just no way we will get out of lockdown until PHE take over the decision making process for sending kids home.

We get constant emails from our children's schools regarding cases. We are told about every case in school by the head, even over the weekends, with a clear indication whether our child needs to isolate or not. It is much more efficient if Heads can decide quickly late at night etc rather than having to call a government department. Just like lots of people who are positive are texting their family and friends rather than waiting for Test and Trace to get in touch days later. Stop looking to the government to legislate for each and every school. Heads know their schools best. Local authorities know their schools too.

Chloe totally understand your frustration. It has never been 2m away at my school but just those sitting directly next to the positive case since dfe interfered and interrupted PHE being the ones to advise schools. Prior to that the advice was bubbles, since that it is people who sat next to them in class with a complete ignoring of length of time they were near that case (eg. being one metre away for 5 whole hours of schooling).

Our risk assessments were designed for sending whole bubbles home in the event of a case. That is why that year group is able to share resources, share the same few toilets, be rammed into lunch queues together (honestly if I wasn't professional and took photos and showed them no one would believe the site of a whole year group shoveled into a one metre wide queuing area round the hall - we're talking mosh pit levels of closeness) etc.

We are now in a situation where our carefully created zones and staggered lunches mean nothing really because they will pretend those kids weren't snogging at lunchtime/using the same toilet/using the desks, textbooks, equipment that others in their yeargroup used last lesson etc and only send them home if they are seen to sit next to each other on a seating plan. And honestly do we think where supply are being used kids are even sitting in their seating plan?

Anyway. It is what it is and what it is is nonsense yet we're still going and doing our job and doing our best to provide cheerful meaningful education for these kids. It would just be nice if people stopped pretending that it is safe and socially distanced and ya da ya da. It's a bit of a kick in the teeth to deny the reality of how hard we are working and how farcical the depictions of safety are.

Heads are not public heakth experts.

Or health, even.