Secondary schools are totally stuffed, WELL-RESPECTED SCIENTISTS ADMIT

[noblegiraffe]

I don't normally get asked for an encore, more usually 'urgh, not another bloody thread', but per a request we have a follow-up to the resoundingly popular:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4078722-Secondary-schools-are-fucked-BOFFINS-ADMIT

Feedback has been received and acted upon re the title so hopefully that will temper the urge to complain.

Quick round-up of where we were at:

1. the infection rate is now highest in secondary school pupils in Y7-11, higher than uni students and sixth formers. They're not catching it at the pub...

2. The government/ONS put out misleading figures to suggest that teachers weren't at higher risk than NHS frontline workers, where actually looking at the data, they may well be. They fudged this by calling the largest group of teachers, who are at higher risk than frontline NHS staff 'teachers of an unknown type' and pretended they were irrelevant.

3. The DfE have changed the format of their attendance statistics report to remove the reference to how many hundreds of thousands of kids are currently isolating due to exposure to covid at school.

4. Boffins are cool

New info: The Guardian reports that teachers are being instructed to ignore app notifications to self-isolate by the school helpline and this might be a bad thing. They can't help themselves though, and have a lovely photo of a socially distanced classroom of lies at the top of the story.

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/nov/16/union-says-teachers-in-england-being-told-to-pause-covid-app-in-school

What about this evidence www.theguardian.com/education/2020/nov/06/teachers-no-more-likely-than-other-key-workers-to-get-covid-says-ons ?

Yeah NapQueen that was discussed on the last thread. It is basically propaganda.

The data showed that teachers were likely more at risk than keyworkers including frontline NHS workers but the way they categorised the data hid that.

Ah fair enough. I’m teaching HE so different cohort but face to face. I don’t feel that worried tbh I’d rather be in and teaching than wfh again!

And even what it did admit to was the same risk as health care staff (not "all" keyworkers as the headline implied).

@SansaSnark

I wonder if some schools are deliberately keeping it out of the press. Do schools have to give permission for stories like this, I wonder?

They definitely don't, but the local media do need to be paying attention/have an informant because schools are generally not broadcasting this themselves.

Perhaps all the nursing and medical staff should wfh too then? I don’t see how schools can possibly close to be honest. Children need and deserve a proper education.

Well they're not getting one.
My school has 2 half year groups out plus a full year plus many teachers.
Every secondary school I can think of in the area has groups out. There are several primary schools fully closed due to staffing.
It was a tier 1 area prior to lockdown as well.

@Napqueen1234

Perhaps all the nursing and medical staff should wfh too then? I don’t see how schools can possibly close to be honest. Children need and deserve a proper education.

But schools are closed to large number of students and have been since September when schools were opened! Rather than being able to provide quality education on a blended learning model, teachers are expected to produce twice the planning in the same number of hours they normally have. Imagine asking a farmer to plough two fields at once (ridiculous analogy to make a point), you wouldn't be surprised with avrealistic 'no can do' response. We are kidding ourselves that if we wipe our brows and give thanks that our child is still in school, that they are representative of all children. What about the big picture? The reality of schooling in a pandemic?

noblegiraffe
"Tweet from the NASUWT chief today "

Yep, saw this earlier. The unions are pretty useless. But they lack support, so are afraid to act. Unions in general do not have the support of ordinary people. I would support strike action, but few would, and the wider public will get their pitch forks out on teachers and the unions, and the government and press would see to it that the unions and teachers are made villains.

Many, many hospitals are now cancelling non-emergency procedures to divert staff to Covid wards, right? Or because they don't have enough staff?

Schools need to do the same. Not closed but reduced offer. Like hospitals. School staff would still all be in school (if not ill). Students (secondary) would be in on a rota. So, the same situation as hospitals.

But what about the bigger picture? Like all of the hospital staff who won’t be able to work when their children are at home and the impact of that? There’s a knock on effect everywhere.

There would be child care for front line hospital staff? Did you not see the officials in Hull begging for this so that their hospitals and other emergency services can operate? They barely can at the moment because so many children are self-isolating from cases in schools.

@Napqueen1234

But what about the bigger picture? Like all of the hospital staff who won’t be able to work when their children are at home and the impact of that? There’s a knock on effect everywhere.

This thread is about secondary schools. How many secondary age children would really need childcare for 1/2 days a week at home?

Schools could still be open full time to some students, as they were in lockdown 1.0, too.

For primary parents, the 2 weeks self isolation is arguably more problematic anyway- as they can't get someone outside into help. This is part of why short term school closures have been suggested in Hull.

The current system is not business as usual...

@NullcovoidNovember

I don't think it's zoe but the covid people?

It is ZOE, which is running the Covid Symptom Study.

Email says “ZOE’s launched a free School Communities Programme”...

Just wondering if reporting to them might help highlight the issues everyone is having. I think they did pick up quite early on the fact that loss of taste/smell was one of the major Covid symptoms.

@Napqueen1234

Perhaps all the nursing and medical staff should wfh too then? I don’t see how schools can possibly close to be honest. Children need and deserve a proper education.

Education can not be compared with health in this instance. People have acute medical needs, people have acute care needs, these can not wait or simply not happen within a reasonable time frame. Care and health care mostly require physical intervention where the persons giving and the persons receiving this care need to be physically present.

Education is not school. School provides education by way of trained people who are qualified provide education. But education is not limited to learning in any specific type of building or by being taught. Some subjects are of course taught, but it is also very possible to learn without being taught at all. There is no such thing as being "educated" its never a done deal, you should know you are in HE!

But what about the bigger picture? Like all of the hospital staff who won’t be able to work when their children are at home and the impact of that? There’s a knock on effect everywhere.

Exactly what Hull are talking about. So many of their keyworker kids are isolating at home that there will be a knock on effect. All of those children would have been in school in the first lockdown.

@noblegiraffe

You're correct I had another look and have forwarded it to my dc school.

sorry NG I actually put in

@MrsFezziwig and it changed it !

You are correct I have just looked again it is the zoe study

"They barely can at the moment because so many children are self-isolating from cases in schools"

^^ exactly what we have a is a patchy dominoes system, at least with blended learning you can keep the integrity of the bubble better.

“The Scottish Parliament has backed a motion calling for the government to fully fund an additional 2,000 teachers so that all schools can maintain safe staffing levels.

The Scottish Greens' amended motion on school safety – which also calls for the government to make regular voluntary Covid-19 testing widely available for asymptomatic staff and senior pupils – received the backing of 64 MSPs, with 56 abstentions and one MSP voting against.”

www.tes.com/news/scottish-parliament-backs-call-extra-2000-teachers

It seems that Scotland can read a graph. When will someone help our useless lot do the same?

@Napqueen1234

Ah fair enough. I’m teaching HE so different cohort but face to face. I don’t feel that worried tbh I’d rather be in and teaching than wfh again!

Would you be worried about their education at your HE if most of them were having to self isolate at home due to positive cases and were getting less that what students who were able to attend in person?

Thinking about the ridiculous photographs. They don't represent what the real conditions are. The pics are staged clearly using models. Is it that they can not use photographs showing children? ipso issued guidance to journalist regarding the use of photographs. It stipulates that photographs of children can be used even without their permission being sought, but only where public interest outweighs the consideration of the child(ren) and the threshold for proving this is higher than in the case of adults.

@ChloeDecker obviously we have had huge numbers of students having to isolate at various times over the past few weeks. They’re just having to engage with the online learning, listen to the podcasts of lectures and catch up when they get back. It’s not ideal but they seem to be muddling through. They’re so unbelievably grateful and happy to see us when they do come in for face to face teaching.

@MiniTheMinx
But the EU privacy laws are more stringent on usage of kid's photos where they are identifiable and that might be something they consider?
Also, most newspapers nowadays use stock and not their own photographer. The news photo journalists I know of are contractors and go to the media outlet when they have a story and not vica versa.
This is based on 2 people, so not representative by any means :)

I just googled stock photos of busy schools and got plenty more suitable ones than currently in use.