Secondary schools are totally stuffed, WELL-RESPECTED SCIENTISTS ADMIT

[noblegiraffe]

I don't normally get asked for an encore, more usually 'urgh, not another bloody thread', but per a request we have a follow-up to the resoundingly popular:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4078722-Secondary-schools-are-fucked-BOFFINS-ADMIT

Feedback has been received and acted upon re the title so hopefully that will temper the urge to complain.

Quick round-up of where we were at:

1. the infection rate is now highest in secondary school pupils in Y7-11, higher than uni students and sixth formers. They're not catching it at the pub...

2. The government/ONS put out misleading figures to suggest that teachers weren't at higher risk than NHS frontline workers, where actually looking at the data, they may well be. They fudged this by calling the largest group of teachers, who are at higher risk than frontline NHS staff 'teachers of an unknown type' and pretended they were irrelevant.

3. The DfE have changed the format of their attendance statistics report to remove the reference to how many hundreds of thousands of kids are currently isolating due to exposure to covid at school.

4. Boffins are cool

New info: The Guardian reports that teachers are being instructed to ignore app notifications to self-isolate by the school helpline and this might be a bad thing. They can't help themselves though, and have a lovely photo of a socially distanced classroom of lies at the top of the story.

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/nov/16/union-says-teachers-in-england-being-told-to-pause-covid-app-in-school

Btw, Noblegiraffe, thank you. And Aragog , I sincerely hope you get well, and soon.

Mini,

Y13.

Add university application into the mix....

Bloody hell Judas that sounds terrible and so worrying for you. I think that children with extremely vulnerable family members have been treated appallingly during this. No thought for the stress they are under at being forced into an unsafe situation.

The Daily Mail have reported on the terrible attendance figures www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8958693/Two-thirds-Englands-secondary-schools-one-pupil-self-isolating-home.html#article-8958693

So far so good. But then the photos are of ‘kids socially distancing as they walk between lessons’.

Please can we have some photos of ‘kids bundling down narrow corridors between lessons with masks on their chins’?

“kids bundling down narrow corridors between lessons with masks on their chins’”

Presumably they’re meant to be wearing them properly. So why aren’t they? And if they aren’t wearing them properly just walking in the corridor, why do people think they will suddenly wear them properly and safely during lessons?

@Smallwhiterat because in corridors it's not possible to be in front of them, to stand looking at them from the front. In a classroom it's a different domain. Also no, not all of them will wear them in classrooms, they will play and fiddle with them but even 50% wearing them in class properly (I think it would be more like 65-100%) is better than the 0% now.

@DARRPG

hi , never been on here before, Im an older dad (66) with a partner(57) who is an awesome step mum to my Girl aged 15. Her school is like everyone elses it seems ( full of Covid) a girl in her class is now off isolating as Positive, only her Bubble/ table of 4 are off , the girl who is off walks down the hill with my girl every day into the village for pick up, ok shes shouldnt have been walking with her, have you seen the kids coming out of a school , they are kids for gods sake and are not socially distancing. We both have health issues and are at risk, but I dont want to keep her off school , we are sat here waiting to catch it and well aware of the danger to us, I have tried to get a test for her , No- as she isnt showing symptoms, should I lie ? Would you keep her off ? Are we selfish ? My mums 88 and isolating and my ex has 2 little ones and is a front line worker , so if we become ill Im not sure who will look after her , fed up of this Sci-Fi movie !

You really needed to start your own thread about this to get answers. Idk I’d anyone else has answered you as I’m working my way through the thread. In your situation, yes, I would book an online test. You can cite your daughter has some symptoms.

@Smallwhiterat

“kids bundling down narrow corridors between lessons with masks on their chins’”

Presumably they’re meant to be wearing them properly. So why aren’t they? And if they aren’t wearing them properly just walking in the corridor, why do people think they will suddenly wear them properly and safely during lessons?

Because the teacher can more easily remind them during classtime- just as a lot of kids walk around with shirts untucked (or breaking other uniform rules) but sort it before they go into class...

At my school, I would say it is a minority of 10-20% who don't wear masks unless prompted, or don't wear them properly. And I think that's improved since mask wearing became law.

Even 80% of kids wearing masks in the classroom would probably make it a bit safer for everyone. If you then reduce class sizes so they can social distance a bit more from teachers and each other, that risk would go down a lot.

Please can we have some photos of ‘kids bundling down narrow corridors between lessons with masks on their chins’?

Yes. They should be showing the reality. I'm am writing to my MP and BBC daily to tell them what schools are really like right now.

Good video on how even if only some wear masks it really reduces transmission a lot more than you'd intuitively think. Even partial mask wearing is effective.

Also, I've always thought the idea of ONLY wearing masks in corridors would lead to more improper use than having to wear them all day. All that fiddling around putting them on and off and also - it doesn't make sense logically. If you don't need them in a classroom with 30 others crammed in for an hour or more why would you need them when just passing through a corridor?

This photo was taken by a student at a secondary school in my area. They posted it on Facebook and caused a lively discussion--with half the people blaming the students for not social distancing.

That looks pretty standard for indoor corridors in my school

Yes- we have one main indoor corridor which always looks like that. There was suggestion of making it one way (which would be totally possible, kids would just have to go outside to walk in the other direction) at the start of this half term, but nothing has come of that.

I think the reasons for masks in corridors is that contact tracing doesn't pick up on contacts in corridors- particularly anyone they stand near/next to whilst waiting to come into the classroom.

Corridors are not controlled or policed.

It's of course far easier to demand mask compliance when students are sat in front of you! It's much easier to see what they are doing.

Really they should be in masks and visors in corridors because covid can enter through the eye.

Er, blimey. That photo. Come on BBC use something like this in your articles!

I don't really think that's ideal even in non-coronavirus times.

But now.....

And how are they supposed to socially distance? There's no room even if you wanted to!

Why would the Daily Mail, who love stirring up outrage have a story about how secondary schools are hit by covid then have socially distanced photos that are not like schools at all?

It stops people from joining the dots. I don’t understand, is it deliberate?

Er, blimey. That photo

That photo is just a totally normal day-to-day photo of a school in covid times. That you are surprised by it is surprising to me!

Come on BBC use something like this in your articles!

Absolutely.

Why is not one journalist/paper/online news provider, anyone!! using a normal school photo in any article about schools at all, that’s what I want to know. They are all using one with a socially distanced, mask wearing class of 6.

What has happened to the country’s supply of classrooms?

Are they hiding in a fridge with Boris Johnson?

Has Gavin Williamson got them all in his garage-is that where he is?!

It just goes to show... I know lots of teachers who tell me how crowded it is, and I believe them, but my idea of 'very crowded' is not 'jammed in together like a rock concert' crowded. I was envisaging sort of a crowded aisle in a shop. Where there's still space to move.

A picture is so much more effective than words - which is why it is positively evil that the newspapers are practising such shoddy journalism. I mean I knew it wasn't like the socially distanced classes of / corridors with 6 pupils that they're showing but yes - I am shocked.

I haven't been in a secondary school other than a tour for a while. During tours the kids are in classes & I've been shocked by how crowded the classrooms are but I've not seen a corridor 'in action' like this since my own days at school. My school was not like that. (It was quite a long time ago...)

That photo is extremely standard currently, especially in corridors and at the start and end of the school day leaving the school. Eating at break and lunch is often worse.

That photo is less crowded than the corridors in my school which are a rugby scrum. And it’s outside.

Out corridors are tiny. You can lift your feet off the floor and be carried along in the crowd.

Someone posted up thread about daughter in 6th form and concern at missing lessons.

My school now has isolating students join lessons via teams. So they are in lessons.

If they have a computer at home that is

Judas - I'm so sorry you and your dds are in this situation. It's wicked. And it's wicked that no one is acknowledging that significant numbers of students' mental health is in tatters because of BEING in school - in normal times, because school is a scary place for lots of children, in covid times because of worrying about taking the virus home, and because behaviour is so poor from students at the moment that others don't feel safe.

It's also wicked that the press persist with those ridiculous photos. I think it's contributing to my anger at least as much as the wicked, negligent actions of the government in putting us in this situation. I never thought I'd see the day when this level of propaganda was being played out in the UK.