Secondary schools are fucked, BOFFINS ADMIT

[noblegiraffe]

Latest ONS random sampling data shows that secondary school children in Y7-11 are now the age group with the highest infection rate in England, overtaking sixth form and university students.

In Wales "Schoolchildren are more likely to catch and spread coronavirus than previously thought, experts have warned... It was also discovered that while children were far more likely to be asymptomatic and not become seriously unwell, they were more likely to be the first positive case in any household."

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/schoolchildren-more-likely-catch-spread-19275959?fbclid=IwAR0kpoikv0D_nkwHx3lVyQX_cyDj6Ycy1d6gE3aRx6syxUKzFQsYzMDSqPw

English boffins are a bit slower on the uptake though
"SAGE’s report found that prevalence of Covid-19 in school-age children had “risen significantly” in the first wave, and that the rise in prevalence was “first visible around the time that schools reopened”.

However, it said that while this “may be indicative of a potential role for school opening, causation, including the extent to which transmission is occurring in schools, is unproven and difficult to establish”.

schoolsweek.co.uk/child-infection-rate-rise-began-when-schools-reopened-but-direct-link-unproven-says-sage/

It must indeed be difficult to establish whether there's transmission in a high risk environment where kids are packed in like sardines with no mitigation measures. A real head-scratcher. Especially if you spent the whole summer insisting that it would be fine because the kids are facing forward.

What do we want? Well, one of the major teaching unions has called on the government to:

1. Demonstrate that they are following the scientific evidence and advice.
2. Strengthen the guidance to schools and colleges on ensuring COVID-safe and COVID-secure working practices.
3. Secure the updating and publication of health and safety risk assessments and equality impact assessments by school and college employers.
4. Publish weekly data on positive cases of COVID-19 infections of school/college staff and pupils by local government area
5. Ramp up inspection and enforcement measures in schools and colleges, including more comprehensive use of spot checks and visits by the Health and Safety Executive (HSE).
6. Take swift action to protect public health in the event of an outbreak.
7. Protect vulnerable teachers and support staff and pupils.
8. Strengthen the guidance to insist on effective social distancing in schools/colleges.
9. Establish a national plan for remote education/blended and distance learning.

10. Provide significant additional financial support for schools and colleges urgently to ensure the safety of staff and pupils, including extra funding for cleaning, personal protective equipment (PPE) and supply teachers

www.nasuwt.org.uk/article-listing/plan-to-keep-schools-safe-during-pandemic.html

Oh OP I knew this would be you yadayada...yeah that's why I chose the same thread title as before etc etc.

Why do we need another thread blah blah: it's because secondary school kids are now infected at the highest rates in the country. This has implications for lockdown. How effective will it be if the most infected subset of the population are mixing freely? And it's also the first hint from scientists that they might have been wrong about exactly how safe schools are. There's also a strong suggestion that kids are bringing the virus home from school which parents should be aware of.

It's also causing chaos in schools, but there's another thread about that.

And I don’t ‘spy’ in the staffroom. You’re not the only teacher on MN, you know.

of course you’ve mentioned your DS.

Not recently...have you got a spreadsheet?

And I don’t ‘spy’ in the staffroom.

Lurking on a thread that you clearly have no interest in joining then trying to use it against me on this one?

Nasty.

I seriously have no idea why you are so defensive about it giraffe. It’s a perfectly ordinary sort of thing to remember. You last brought it up at the beginning of this academic year, IIRC. Hardly as if you mentioned him once at birth and then never again

I’m really not stalking you, but TBH if you’re going to react this strongly to someone mentioning a really innocuous piece of info, use the name change function. But don’t accuse me of stalking and spreadsheets. That reaction is downright peculiar.

So back to topic, since I know the very worst crime in your eyes is someone trying to change the subject WOULD you be happy with him at home for five days a week, alone?

I’m not using it against you at all. You post on there and announce that you’ve started (another) thread and that naturally whips up support and cheerleading.

Seriously giraffe knock it off. It’s embarrassing. Seriously, stop.

You post on Mumsnet under the same name for over a decade, someone remembers the age of your child and someone reads a thread you post on and you decide to accuse them of ‘stalking’?

I will admit I roll my eyes at these threads but it doesn’t mean I don’t abhor some of the more unpleasant remarks. But accusations of stalking and spreadsheets and bullying are looking really deliberately provocative, as if you’re just wanting someone to lash out at.

I mentioned the AGE of your child.

How is that stalking?

Holly, you’ve clearly searched my posts to dig for stuff to use against me and now you’re pretending to have just happened to have remembered it.

If anyone wants to go to the staffroom, they’ll find a thread of teachers supporting each other through this shit. Recent topic of conversation: Andrew Lincoln in Teachers. I post links to my threads on there because there are some teachers so fucking traumatised from the teacher bashing that has been thrown at us since March on here that they don’t generally go onto the wider forum. Another poster linked to the Wales article on there that I used in my OP and we were discussing it so of course they might be interested in my thread.
They didn’t want to start a thread about it themselves because they honestly couldn’t cope with the bollocks that is thrown when teachers start threads about schools.

I did, because I genuinely do not give a single fuck what posters like you think about me and whether it pisses you off to see yet another thread from me.

I want ‘Secondary schools are fucked ADMIT BOFFINS’ regularly appearing on Active so that people can’t claim that they were unaware when it really goes to shit.

So thanks for bumping my thread for me.

I have not ‘searched your posts’ at all

I am absolutely lost as to why you’re having such a strong reaction to this. If I’d said your child’s name, or equivalent, totally understandable (and I don’t know it) but his age? That’s absolutely bananas.

I’m not pissed off about another thread. As it happens, I think you mean well. But I do find your posts on this subject extremely frustrating.

All actions have consequences. Shutting schools was an action that has and continues to have grave consequences. It was the right thing to do, then. To do so now, when not as many parents are WFH, when the days are notably shorter, when there has already been so much disruption to education, would not be the right course of action IMO (though I do think they should have closed for two weeks over half term.)

Blended learning is not possible or practical. I will repeat, yours or someone else’s 11 year old shouldn’t be home five days a week alone. You can scream abuse at me if you wish but I don’t think you’d do it to your child.

You may of course post what you want, where you want, but if someone else reads it, that doesn’t make them a ‘stalker’. That is a weird and frankly deliberate attempt to be provocative and to paint yourself as a victim - because someone remembered the age of one of your children? That’s nuts.

You post on there and announce that you’ve started (another) thread and that naturally whips up support and cheerleading

That's right, undermine noblegiraffe's perfect right to start a thread about something that is still going on. I rather thought posters agreed or disagreed, so less of the "whips up" and "cheerleading".

Thoroughly unpleasant, snide post.

And on that note I am going to bed. You should too. Sleep it off.

Sorry echt, missed the part where we all had to agree.

I won’t lie, I think these continued threads are unwise and they do more to whip up ‘teacher bashing’ than any other thing on these boards, it’s still giraffes right to post them if she wishes. But she does not have the right to accuse me of stalking. That, IMO, crosses a line.

Holly I’m just supposed to believe that you remembered that I mentioned my DS in September?

Pull the other one.

Shutting schools was an action that has and continues to have grave consequences.

Not argued for it.

Blended learning is not possible or practical.

Would rather not do it.

So you’ve spent all that time reading my posts and you’re still pretending I’m wanting to shut schools so that you’ve got something to object to? Give it up.

Sorry echt, missed the part where we all had to agree

There you go again, with the snide "sorry" and no, I never said that.
Did you read my post? : I rather thought posters agreed or disagreed

Do work on your reading skills. They're so important.

OK giraffe. Slowly.

I know the subject you teach. I know you have a DS in Y7. You’ve mentioned both these things recently. I actually think it might have been a bit before September, as it was a thread about Y6/Y7 transition IIRC. It doesn’t matter. It is not stalking. I honestly cannot fathom why you are so wound up about it. It can’t be some sort of closely guarded secret?

There are other regular posters on these boards, and I remember the ages of their children, their pets, their jobs, sometimes. Others, I don’t.

echt, for someone who claims they don’t like snide posts, you’re doing a rather good job at it yourself. It was ever thus, though. And no, I haven’t been stalking you, either.

And the lurking on the staffroom thread Holly, what’s that about, hmm?

Like I said, you claim to be bored to tears by me and yet here you are, remembering stuff I posted months ago and spying on other threads I’m on... maybe you should get out more?

echt, for someone who claims they don’t like snide posts, you’re doing a rather good job at it yourself

I objected to you being snide about noblegiraffe. I was snide about you because you were snide to me, and yes, I'm good at at it when I feel the need.

It was ever thus. And no, I haven’t been stalking you, either

There you go again, hinting that I'm always snide (as if I give a fuck what you think (sic), then saying you don't stalk me. ????? Bizarre.

What distinguishes the likes of noblegiraffe and myself from so many users of MN is that we post under the same usernames. We neither of us hide when posting on controversial topics.

Anyone would think thousands of children would be at home alone for days on end the way some are thinking.
Don't these children have someone living at home? If not that is a whole different issue and not really in the schools remit to solve.

Do people really think that school staff don't have children themselves and know directly how hard it is to balance that work/home balance at the moment?

Doesn't matter if they work in a school, hospital, factory, parliament all employers should be treated equally and at the moment they simply are not.

How many parents did have to leave their kids home during the day because they were off sick, and going back years? During the school holidays left at home because no affordable childcare arrangements and especially for those in secondary school.

more on topic as trolls bore me to death....

So....

There is a form of blended learning that could have been implemented. What I see with schools (not just ours) that they are really inflexible. Now, before everyone jumps on me, I don't blame them. I don't blame teachers for not being creative or heads not wanting to see another view. I get it. The Uk system has been in place for a very long time without massive underground changes. There was never a need to reinvent anything as it was never that bad. Overhauls were governed and pushed mostly from above as far as I know, albeit I'm not from here, so pls. correct me if I'm wrong. There are very few alternative schools. There's state and private. And private is almost like state, but has more resources, more teachers... but essentially they teach -generally- in the same way, along the same concepts.
In normal years it irks me, now I think it is not an issue. On a day-to-day basis they are doing there best in this shitstorm. hope, that's out of the way and I won't get flamed.

In new situations we adapt. The success of an organism depends on how it can/can't adapt. Schools adapted to the new situation in March. Some better than others. Kids ditto. But....

For some strange reason everyone seemed to think that Dfe would stand up and provide guidance. If no later, then at gcse results time it should have been obvious that they are incapable of doing so. And at that time the headteacher unions and organizations should have sat down, do a week long workshop/conference on OK, but what next if we predict that the numbers will be astronomical. Invite Sage/iSage members to advise on the covid part. Plan for worst case scenario and derive a reasonable middle ground.

And there would have been minimal time, but just enough to come up with working solutions.

Blended learning is not 1 week in school (practice) and 1 week home (learning). It has a framework and an underlying structure. It needs to be built up that it is a mixture of both in both settings. Without doing proper blended learning syllabus there would have been time to teach the teachers about the concept, the underlying structure and create a support structure. There are professionals from other fields who would volunteer to help. Like me. I design processes and experiences for a living. I have offered 6 schools help with anything they need. For free. I've been made redundant, so I have my brain and time to give.
Nobody was interested. Because I didn't offer a magic bullet, or reassurance that they are doing it right. I offered services to help them re-design their processes and learning experiences. You know what the answer was always: we have no need for that as we are going back in the classroom and teaching will be the same as always. When I asked about 2 week isolation they basically said they'll set homework and the kid will have to catch up when in school again. And that the teachers will provide additional help (basically putting it all on teachers to work extra hours so joe gets the math topic...)

It's the mentality that I have an issue with. Everyone is looking around and waiting for someone higher up to solve the problem when it is glaringly obvious that higher up is assholes galore. And still schools are not budging, even now. They are trying heroically to do everything just the same as always.

At the end of last school year multiple things should have happened:

• make it clear about attendance. Look at all the edge cases and solve them. Having still this binary attendance option is bollocks in a pandemic. And a lot of stress.

• assess what has happened in the summer term. This could have been started as early as june by crunching numbers in the background and conducting quick(ish) phone interviews.

(sidenote: just read ofsted reports and I'm astonished at the level of stupidity and anecdotalism* in them. Not highly professional in my opinion)

• Disseminate technology usage videos/courses. You don't need to make them, there are millions. Chose a few and get teachers to learn from it. It's amazing how baffled some are still with basics. And there are 3 basic platform only. Teams/MS, GoogleClassroom and Apple whatsitsname

Create maybe a hotline where teachers can call in with tech problems?

• plan for blended learning. Teach the teachers about it so they can feel at least somewhat comfortable with it instead of fearing it because they have no idea how to do it right.
• identify the edge cases. Kids who won't benefit from it, or will be simply left behind. Poverty, sen, whatever. Solve on a local level.

• Pair up schools in areas. Create frameworks for blended learning** per subject in workshops. You'd be amazed how much work can be done through those. Point is that it should be run by professional facilitators who can chose which "games" will be best and are not invested in the actual topic, so can steer instead of participate.

In these workshops the topic should not have been about specifics. Eg in english each teacher will chose a diff book, so no real common ground there. But they could brainstorm and ideate about how to structure the learning into this 2wks/2wks form

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY:
don't try to solve, restructure. In these highly flexible, quick changing situations I always tell my clients that they don't have to come up with the perfect product or service. They only have to address the basic needs of their customers. (and make sure that they assess the basic needs correctly in the first place.)
Crude, but efficient is the goal.

But even now schools are rigid and not malleable in the least. And I think this mentality is the root cause of the problem.
Ok, rephrase: real root cause is an utter disgrace of a government.

Sidenote: in eastern europe we had a terribly shitty educational system in the begginning of the 90s. Curricula was batshit crazy both in content and amount. So couple of teachers started a montessori school. Another few started another alternative type.

Whilst in uni I was part of a wider group (involving both above mentioned) where we reformed the way subjects were taught. Took 2 years to overhaul the system, incl. almost 1.5 yrs of continuous testing in actual participating schools, evaluating and redesigning...
Some made it into mainstream education, some were only for the benefit of the alternative educators. Here, even the thought of something like this on a much smaller scale is heresy.

*I know there is no such word

**or any alternative ideas

sorry, just realized that i have written a short story instead of a post.

Great post @TheSunIsStillShining. That's what relentless standardisation gets you. Along with the monitoring and lack of trust the UK has in its teachers. You take away the ability of professionals to trust their judgement and innovate to suit the children and situation on front of them.

I have taught in the UK and in Australia and I find teaching a much more enjoyable profession in Australia. One day the Government might work out that teachers know far more about how to educate than Ofsted do.

It concerns me that some teachers on mn are so defensive and cannot debate without personal attacks (and accusations of “teacher bashing”). I don’t think we should allow debate to be stifled and we should take all personal attacks seriously (including labelling people stalkers).

That’s a really interesting view @TheSunIsStillShining And @thingsarelookingup is right that standardisation for decades and micro scrutiny has really not helped. I was musing recently if we had today’s technology and the relative freedom of teaching from the 70s what great solutions could arise I wonder?

But I am not a teacher and my only school aged child is in 6th form. So I definitely don’t have enough insight to comment more sensibly. I feel selfish too because my dd is desperate for school to stay open because she missed so much secondary school- she barely went and has only just started enjoying it. Although for her age group there are several options that she’d be happy with.

What does the thread starter mean by "fucked"? It seems an odd, alarmist and yet curiously non-specific choice of words.

I think we need to acknowledge that older teenagers definitely have a greater risk than younger teenagers and children. Unfortunately this is also the age who most need strong education at the moment for exams and their future.

I do think CEV children should be allowed to stay home without losing their place. And CEV teachers need more protection. I know that’s not easy; some schools will be fine, in some schools the distribution of staff may make it tough.

School should remain open though as far as they possibly can be.