Secondary schools are fucked, BOFFINS ADMIT

[noblegiraffe]

Latest ONS random sampling data shows that secondary school children in Y7-11 are now the age group with the highest infection rate in England, overtaking sixth form and university students.

In Wales "Schoolchildren are more likely to catch and spread coronavirus than previously thought, experts have warned... It was also discovered that while children were far more likely to be asymptomatic and not become seriously unwell, they were more likely to be the first positive case in any household."

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/schoolchildren-more-likely-catch-spread-19275959?fbclid=IwAR0kpoikv0D_nkwHx3lVyQX_cyDj6Ycy1d6gE3aRx6syxUKzFQsYzMDSqPw

English boffins are a bit slower on the uptake though
"SAGE’s report found that prevalence of Covid-19 in school-age children had “risen significantly” in the first wave, and that the rise in prevalence was “first visible around the time that schools reopened”.

However, it said that while this “may be indicative of a potential role for school opening, causation, including the extent to which transmission is occurring in schools, is unproven and difficult to establish”.

schoolsweek.co.uk/child-infection-rate-rise-began-when-schools-reopened-but-direct-link-unproven-says-sage/

It must indeed be difficult to establish whether there's transmission in a high risk environment where kids are packed in like sardines with no mitigation measures. A real head-scratcher. Especially if you spent the whole summer insisting that it would be fine because the kids are facing forward.

What do we want? Well, one of the major teaching unions has called on the government to:

1. Demonstrate that they are following the scientific evidence and advice.
2. Strengthen the guidance to schools and colleges on ensuring COVID-safe and COVID-secure working practices.
3. Secure the updating and publication of health and safety risk assessments and equality impact assessments by school and college employers.
4. Publish weekly data on positive cases of COVID-19 infections of school/college staff and pupils by local government area
5. Ramp up inspection and enforcement measures in schools and colleges, including more comprehensive use of spot checks and visits by the Health and Safety Executive (HSE).
6. Take swift action to protect public health in the event of an outbreak.
7. Protect vulnerable teachers and support staff and pupils.
8. Strengthen the guidance to insist on effective social distancing in schools/colleges.
9. Establish a national plan for remote education/blended and distance learning.

10. Provide significant additional financial support for schools and colleges urgently to ensure the safety of staff and pupils, including extra funding for cleaning, personal protective equipment (PPE) and supply teachers

www.nasuwt.org.uk/article-listing/plan-to-keep-schools-safe-during-pandemic.html

Oh OP I knew this would be you yadayada...yeah that's why I chose the same thread title as before etc etc.

Why do we need another thread blah blah: it's because secondary school kids are now infected at the highest rates in the country. This has implications for lockdown. How effective will it be if the most infected subset of the population are mixing freely? And it's also the first hint from scientists that they might have been wrong about exactly how safe schools are. There's also a strong suggestion that kids are bringing the virus home from school which parents should be aware of.

It's also causing chaos in schools, but there's another thread about that.

It is so simple. Make schools safe(r), staff don't get sick, schools stay open. Keep schools as they are, staff will get sick, eventually there won't be enough left to keep schools open, schools close. What I do hard to understand ?It's not open or closed. It's open with safety measures in place, so screens, some attempt at social distancing using rota's, windows open, masks on faces. Then staff will be more likely to remain well. I want schools to remain open, as do all teachers I know.
I'm exhausted and have decided to not mark exam next summer, as have many of my colleagues. Not sure how that's going to work out.

@Juststopswimming

I absolutely knew who had started this thread before even reading it

Thank goodness she is still on the case. She has done so much to enlighten and change the general conversations on here.

It is shocking what is happening in (some) schools and colleges. Unless you work in one or have a family member who does you would not believe it.

We have two choices:

Complete hardline lockdown for 3 weeks.

Or alternatively, open up and we live/die with it according to our own situation.

Thanks to the OP, there are very few voices now like @Susanwouldntlikeit and there is so much more pressure for safety and change.

sleepwouldbenice you’re right, the refusal to put funding into schools (posters have told me that of course the govt can’t afford it, I hope they’re rethinking that in the light of furlough being massively extended) is mad and counter-productive when it’s an easy win. I genuinely don’t understand why this appears to be the hill they’re willing to die on. The vote to not feed hungry kids (how many times do they need to u-turn under pressure from Marcus Rashford before they stop insisting every new holiday that this is the one where kids won’t get fed?) made the entire Tory party bar 5 MPs look like they absolutely don’t give a shit about kids’ well-being, and yet they knew this and still voted that way.

The only conclusion is that they actually don’t give a shit about kids at all.

There is no social distancing in schools. None. Zero. Because it's impossible. Staircases are packed, narrow corridors are packed, classrooms are not big enough to keep 50cm away. Year group bubbles (of 300+ in my school) are a joke as kids go home on bus all together, have siblings in other year groups.
I'm tired of feeling like my life doesn't matter, as long as schools stay open.

@mumsneedwine I hear you. Snap.

I'll start by saying I wanted school to open, this was based on the incredible poor education my youngest 'home schooling' got it was (2 Oak Academy lessons and daily bitesize) and that was it.

But I also understand how quickly things can change within school settings.

My DC high school have gone to having no cases since they returned in September to having 4 cases in the last 10 days in different year groups. So I have 1 year 7 isolating until the 19th, a year 8 isolating until 23rd. And now we been told that years 8 & 9 will be taught at home until the 30th as they don't have the teachers for all years. This is not sustainable going forward with year groups being on a rota as to whether they are home learning or in school.

I now believe it would be for the best if schools to close early for Christmas.

Can you define what you mean by "hardline" lockdown?

Do you want food deliveries? And electricity? Oh - and hospitals?

The problem with a 'hardline lockdown' presumably to reduce infection rates, is that it doesn't fix anything in schools - we had a very low infection rate when they reopened and look at where we are now a couple of months down the line.

No surprise.
My DDs entire year group are off next week as 30% had to isolate. Some utter Muppets allowed their child to have a birthday party over half term, loads went to it, along with kids from the other secondary school, so now both year groups in both schools are off.
School are saying it's due to there being 25 teachers off due to seasonal illness, isolating waiting for a result for them or a relative, or with a positive test already so there isn't enough staff to go round. But they had already set up a year by year rota for what years had to remotely learn one day a week so I think they just know that year are utterly screwed.
Luckily DD is an antisocial goth with a group of 8 mates so isn't at risk.
I give it a fortnight and schools will close.

@IloveJKRowling

Teenager mental health and suicides through the roof I would be more worried about that than this bloody virus

Evidence? If you look at the stats, school aged kids had a LOWER suicide rate during lockdown (this was covered in one of the data and analysis threads in depth). There is no robust evidence for this common assertion that I've heard.

Regardless, most people want safer schools with more measures which will result in more consistent schooling, greater feeling of safety, fewer sick kids and their parents and fewer closures.

Which surely can only result in better mental health for all.

Didn't the so called evidence say that suicides had not risen which is complete shit .. 2 teenager have committed suicide where I live ... I suffer mental health and my therapist has never been so busy mainly teenager !!!

@canigooutyet what is the point of raising concerns on MN what exactly can you do ? Speak to your MP or the school going over the same thing on MN all the time just fuels anger I don't think the scientists will be looking on here and it suddenly changes !

@howaboutholly

Posting the same thread on MN on a weekly basis is not “doing something.”

Exactly same thing over and over I am not sure what it achieves apart from anger /fear and anxiety if something could be done via MN then I understand but it won't change

Mass regular rapid testing in all schools is possibly the only way to keep schools operating as they were back in early September. The alternative is to have smaller classes properly social distanced,masks and screens. Maybe if the government could guarantee mass regular rapid testing would be available for January schools could shut early for Xmas.

Changing opinions, letting people know what is really going on instead of the radio silence from msm. Trying to get non school workers to see that if we all fight for safer schools they stand a chance of staying open.

I'm so sorry that some people had a poor experience of education in lockdown 1. I know many teachers weren't allowed to do live /recorded lessons due to school policies (that some SLT live and die by), I know myself and my DH did everything we could for our pupils and their parents in accordance with guidelines from our SLTs. It does feel as if some are saying that because they had a shit experience of lockdown 1 that teachers just need to put up and shut up and get on with the mess at the moment. Surely we all want safer schools?

It is really awful, wildbarnet, but teenagers do sometimes commit suicide even in non-covid times, and when it happens, it can sometimes trigger others. This is why we have suicide reporting guidelines and suicides in young people are not reported in the local press. We should be very careful about attributing suicides to a particular cause.

It's not the same thread. It is new data.

If you went back in time you would see that al the predictions teachers made about children catching, it, children spreading, it , disrupted learning, and high teacher absence were entirely correct.

I don't know why insider knowledge and on the ground experience is so sneered at and dismissed. I cannot imagine disbelieving, or minimising, anything a doctor, nurse, careworker , etc posts. But tis seems to eb entirley commonplace for teachers' posts.

I’m a teacher.

Mental health for teenagers has been massively over exaggerated during lockdown. Yes, some suffered as did adults. But the release of constant exam pressure actually improved teen health in a lot of students.

My teen had a much happier time during lockdown. I think it suits some and not others.

Well done noblegiraffe!

Not once have you said schools should close.
All the posts are advocating for safer schools.

I'm sorry that some posters can't manage to grasp that and have to resort to name calling and unpleasantness. I'm sorry you are on the receiving end of that.

I agree wholeheartedly with you that schools need to be safer. There are things our government could have been doing to help with that but they are choosing not to.

There is no reason why some of the things suggested should not be happening in our schools, especially secondary.

Children, parents and school staff ARE catching Covid and some are becoming quite unwell with it. But the government would rather not deal with that.

I can also say for certain that the media simply are not interested in real school numbers re Covid. Even local media aren't mentioning it now, like they were in September. Probably because in some areas there's too many to keep up with.

I very much doubt any parent at my school could say how many cases there have been at my school. As a member of staff I don't know for sure the actual number now. I know how many classes have had to have a period of self isolation (all of them now) but not who/how many have tested positive.

Thank you again.

I think the thing that gets to me about the current situation (beyond the obvious health risks) is the unfairness of it all.

The school I work in has been pretty lucky- we've only had two cases in students and only one of those resulted in having to send children home (about 30 for one student) as the other tested positive over half term. So whilst there are a lot of kids who've missed 4+ weeks of school already, there are also a lot who have had 100% attendance. I think it's relevant to mention my SLT have taken this really seriously and we have been a "masks in the corridors" school since day 1.

Equally, there are schools where students are lucky to have had 4 weeks in school since the start of term. There are schools that are completely closed right now, and schools which are functioning pretty close to normal. There are schools that are on their knees with staff absence and schools where this is much less of an issue.

And yet, at the moment, for the kids in Y11/12/13, they will all sit the same exams, with no allowances made.

I do think something needs to be done to allow schools to have a "reset" and then we need to find strategies to ensure there is less transmission in schools. I do think mask wearing is a big one. I do think we need to seriously consider a period of blended learning in some areas.

There is a minority of students in the country where 2 days in a week since the start of term would actually have led to higher attendance due to the number of times they have had to isolate.

susan is or is not your schools a fee paying girls' school in London?

The elephant in the room has always been schools. The government, actually any government in the world to be fair doesn’t want to close them. Sadly until schools close for a long stretch again then our numbers are going to stay roughly the same, if not get worse.

Covid is rife in schools right now and there’s essentially nothing to stop it unless kids are made to wear masks at all times and classes observe strict social distancing. If that isn’t an option then shut them down.

Will children’s education be impacted as a result of this? Yes of course it will but the alternative is going to get worse.

Herd immunity doesn’t work. A vaccine will not work for a long time. Something has to give and I think it may be schools. If you’re going to argue that cannot happen then please offer an alternative solution.

@TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince

I’m a teacher.

Mental health for teenagers has been massively over exaggerated during lockdown. Yes, some suffered as did adults. But the release of constant exam pressure actually improved teen health in a lot of students.

Hi I am not doubting that but where I live we have and even people losing their jobs and teenager are seeking more help from councillors which keeps it down