Secondary schools are fucked, BOFFINS ADMIT

[noblegiraffe]

Latest ONS random sampling data shows that secondary school children in Y7-11 are now the age group with the highest infection rate in England, overtaking sixth form and university students.

In Wales "Schoolchildren are more likely to catch and spread coronavirus than previously thought, experts have warned... It was also discovered that while children were far more likely to be asymptomatic and not become seriously unwell, they were more likely to be the first positive case in any household."

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/schoolchildren-more-likely-catch-spread-19275959?fbclid=IwAR0kpoikv0D_nkwHx3lVyQX_cyDj6Ycy1d6gE3aRx6syxUKzFQsYzMDSqPw

English boffins are a bit slower on the uptake though
"SAGE’s report found that prevalence of Covid-19 in school-age children had “risen significantly” in the first wave, and that the rise in prevalence was “first visible around the time that schools reopened”.

However, it said that while this “may be indicative of a potential role for school opening, causation, including the extent to which transmission is occurring in schools, is unproven and difficult to establish”.

schoolsweek.co.uk/child-infection-rate-rise-began-when-schools-reopened-but-direct-link-unproven-says-sage/

It must indeed be difficult to establish whether there's transmission in a high risk environment where kids are packed in like sardines with no mitigation measures. A real head-scratcher. Especially if you spent the whole summer insisting that it would be fine because the kids are facing forward.

What do we want? Well, one of the major teaching unions has called on the government to:

1. Demonstrate that they are following the scientific evidence and advice.
2. Strengthen the guidance to schools and colleges on ensuring COVID-safe and COVID-secure working practices.
3. Secure the updating and publication of health and safety risk assessments and equality impact assessments by school and college employers.
4. Publish weekly data on positive cases of COVID-19 infections of school/college staff and pupils by local government area
5. Ramp up inspection and enforcement measures in schools and colleges, including more comprehensive use of spot checks and visits by the Health and Safety Executive (HSE).
6. Take swift action to protect public health in the event of an outbreak.
7. Protect vulnerable teachers and support staff and pupils.
8. Strengthen the guidance to insist on effective social distancing in schools/colleges.
9. Establish a national plan for remote education/blended and distance learning.

10. Provide significant additional financial support for schools and colleges urgently to ensure the safety of staff and pupils, including extra funding for cleaning, personal protective equipment (PPE) and supply teachers

www.nasuwt.org.uk/article-listing/plan-to-keep-schools-safe-during-pandemic.html

Oh OP I knew this would be you yadayada...yeah that's why I chose the same thread title as before etc etc.

Why do we need another thread blah blah: it's because secondary school kids are now infected at the highest rates in the country. This has implications for lockdown. How effective will it be if the most infected subset of the population are mixing freely? And it's also the first hint from scientists that they might have been wrong about exactly how safe schools are. There's also a strong suggestion that kids are bringing the virus home from school which parents should be aware of.

It's also causing chaos in schools, but there's another thread about that.

I couldn't give a rat's ass about secondary schools being fucked as an institution. It's our children and staff who are truly fucked. But on the other hand... they are willing participants. If most teachers called in sick, if parents didn't send their kids in, etc... the system would have to change. But apart from complaining people are not willing to fight for it.
AS long as we have 8-%ish attendance nothing will change. I am being called paranoid and endangering my son's mh by council official who doesn't budge when I cite studies, research or case numbers. Evidence.
She doesn't care. Because gov has it in writing that schools are safe. That's it. What can I do as one parent? But imagine what we could do as all parents/teachers....

and another thought: how could have anyone, anywhere, ever think that schools won't be the hotbed? Just look at lice notifications every fucking year.

@noblegiraffe

Not just school and it looks like the graph is steadily coming down now many of those things are shut.

Are you looking at the sixth form graph? The Y7-Y11 one has a slight dip but then schools were closed for half term.

Yes sorry, I was expecting the title to be above the graph and thought the top one must be primary!

I’d just like to say that many children, including those with Sen, actually find working at home easier in the comfort of their own homes without the distraction from other pupils. However I do find that there is a lot of denial about how poor some of the provision was in the summer term. I think it is quite important to take on board, not as criticism but it is the reason that many parents are very reluctant to consider home learning again. I have no complaints about one school, the teacher put a lot of effort in, my child was contacted every week and I had communication too. The other school really weren’t good, very little contact by any means with no pastoral input at all. It was obvious that some teachers were working hard and some really were not. Added to that with the best will in the world how can things like PE, dance, drama, art be taught as effectively without being in school?

Possums4evr all meetings at my school are now online or our SLT meetings take place in a giant hall and we all sit at a separate table, around 4-5 meters away from eachother.

We have phones in every room, radios and corridors are sealed off to bubbles unless there is an emergency and even in that case, only SLT are able to move around and we wear a mask.

Bubbles are closed with immediate effect if a pupil tests positive and the entire group has to self isolate. We then have people who come in and disinfect the corridors and rooms for around £750.

The issue we have at the moment is the number of parents who happily allow their children out to play close to the school despite their child's year group being asked to self isolate or think that it is ok go shopping in a neighbouring town simply because they don't think the rules apply to them. I've seen local secondary pupils from year groups that have been closed doing the exact same thing.

I thought head lice would have been eradicated but unfortunately not...😩

Genuinely sorry that you feel that way, sunisstillshining.

There is a lot of pressure on teachers to go into school and to keep things going, not least what happened to vulnerable children when schools were closed. We know the issues in a way that other posters just post hypothetically about.

Teachers, statistically, are more likely to go into school when sick. We suck up working conditions that other people wouldn't touch with a shitty stick for the sake of the kids.

And look at how hated the unions are. Any hint of teacher action would see vitriol at a level that would be unbearable.

I think parents need to put more pressure on. They are not actively despised by the current government as teachers are.

@MadridSun I’m actually laughing at your posts, you are either incredibly naive or incredibly stupid, do you seriously think children don’t spread COVID 😂 you remind me of another poster who disappeared recently.........hmmmmm.

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/education/coronavirus-cases-schools-wales-covid-19228666

@noblegiraffe

Staff have been told to turn the app off!? I didn't realise this 😠 ..what a surprise... we're all being taken as fools makes me so angry

I'm not quite sure why secondary school kids wait at the bus stop in crowds, masks pulled down to their chins, chatting and huddling close. Then they board the bus and find their seats with masks dangling from pockets or down on their chins. Sometimes, I notice in passing, they put back their masks once they've finished talking.
It's a common practice, polite kids who move to let you pass; girls, boys. Kids you can't imagine dropping litter. There is anxiety, no doubt, about passing the virus to vulnerable older relatives. There must be. Fear too, that disregarding the rules will lead to a longer lockdown. I don't get it. Why aren't they conforming with the rules, and why isn't some measure in place on the buses themselves to enforce the rules?

I'm sure members of the public wouldn't want to remind a child, for fear of upsetting them, or coming across as heavy-handed. There are big notices on the buses to reinforce the rules, but it isn't working. If masks are worn in school - why isn't the habit being generalised?

For all those saying it's fully opened or fully closed I wish for someone to come up with a solution for many families with children who are vunerable for health reasons.
What are they supposed to do ? Just miss a year of school? A lot of you seem to think children cannot possibly cope and will fall behind on a rota system so what about those children and their siblings who cannot attend school as it is right now with so much covid ?
...I fully accept there is never going to be a risk free option, Im not a believer of just waiting for a vaccine and covid will go away I fully accept it will be around forever more but while some people experience inconvenience with a positive case in a class and having to self isolate if a vunerable child was in that class they may end up in an ICU
So unless schools are safer and the risk is lesser than they currently are where in many covid is running through them why should these children have to miss out on months of their education just so the healthy ones don't have to miss out on any time ?
I am and can homeschool (having taken a huge financial hit by being off work long term unpaid) and spend hours and hours of my life right now to ensure I can provide the very best that I can for my children but I'm not a qualified teacher...there are I'm sure many parents that would struggle a lot more and their children are loosing out on education but the alternative is also worse.
How can we minimize the risks so that schools are safer so these children can then attend and get their education if everyone just wants schools fully opened as they are now ?

Yeah Due, there have been posts about this and a thread in the staffroom.

If the school says that staff are always 2m apart, it would be a bit inconvenient to have the app say otherwise.

I'm not quite sure why secondary school kids wait at the bus stop in crowds, masks pulled down to their chins, chatting and huddling close

Because this is literally how they behave at school. No social distancing and no masks in the playground or classroom. It is really quite hard to explain to them that while yes, it's fine in the school grounds, it's actually illegal once they get out the gate.

Masks are only currently mandated in corridors, where they spend maybe minutes of their school day. At lunch and break it's a free-for all. In classrooms they're sat shoulder to shoulder.

DC rightly will not be denied any more of their education as a result of a virus that poses no threat to them.

Fuck the teachers and other staff.

What about the loss of life expectancy that disadvantaged DC suffer from school closures?
Does that not matter as its not caused by COVID?
Teacher Tapp data yesterday was that only 1/3 schools had remained open to all years this week. That's 2/3 schools with groups off isolating. Students are already not in school. It's just no one official is collecting the data.

Clearly there have been a few local issues in schools in areas of high transmission.

I don't think 2/3 schools having students off isolating is "a few local issues".

There is no need for whole bubbles to be sent home following a positive test. This goes against PHE and DFE guidance.

Only close contacts need to be isolated.

In a class sized bubble they are all close contacts. PHE may argue otherwise, but students mix with each other in the room, on the corridors and at social times. It's foolhardy to keep them in school and will only add to the spread.

Why aren't they conforming with the rules, and why isn't some measure in place on the buses themselves to enforce the rules?

They're the same in school. At least we can try and enforce mask wearing. Aside from police on every bus what do you think can be done?

[quote MadridSun]@BertNErnie

There is no need for whole bubbles to be sent home following a positive test. This goes against PHE and DFE guidance.

Only close contacts need to be isolated.[/quote]
PHE told my daughter’s school today that her whole bubble had to close for 14 days because of one positive case due to a selfish parent sending their child in whilst their child was awaiting a positive result.

As always, you are talking bollocks Ecosse, sorry MadridSun

Threads like this really make me despair

I have a daughter in year 13. Tier 3 area. Her lockdown teaching was crap, and it really was the schools approach that led this. I Desperately want schools open

But I can also Recognise what a risk their year group is. Why don’t they wear masks in class? Why isn’t there more ppe for teachers? Why did the school put them in year group assemblies? Why do they travel to school on a packed bus? There is no one size fits all solution for all schools but there are many many ways to improve things. Why can’t this happen?

Yes many other professions also have issues and vulnerabilities but it’s not a race to the bottom.

Not at all surprised by this data.

noticing a change in media and government narrative. So wondering if they’ll move to part time in school/online learning for secondary around Christmas +/- a couple of weeks.

A side note: As a scientist, I hate seeing the use of the word boffins. It is trivialising and a pejorative term for highly trained and dedicated people who are working their arses off to save people’s lives at the moment.

I’m unfortunately in a top 20 covid area but am hopeful that the mass testing that has been announced for our area will have a focus on schools. It’s interesting to see how I’ve mentioned school support staff twice as being at risk but no one has replied - the focus seems to only be on teachers. It seems that teachers don’t have a higher infection rate than other professionals though and anecdotal evidence from my school is that more supportive staff have been affected. Also the support staff seem to be of a higher average age than teachers so likely to be more severely affected.

Very much in love with the boffins doing stuff like finding new treatments, developing vaccines etc, everythingthelighttouches

Not so much love for the boffins who are wheeled out on TV to parrot the government line and obfuscate the data to suit a narrative.

@MarmiteCrumpet25q We've (strangely) had far more teachers off with it than support staff. Logically this doesn't make sense. They are closer to the students.

Why did the school put them in year group assemblies?
That is a bonkers decision.

Why do they travel to school on a packed bus?
What are the alternatives?

There is no one size fits all solution for all schools but there are many many ways to improve things. Why can’t this happen?

Government won't allow it or fund it.

@callmeangelina, the point is some teachers managed to do online lessons with their classes and others didn't bother to. My niece in a state school had online lessons from 9-12 and again 2-3. My son got none. Lockdown lasted almost 5 months do plenty of time for teachers to sort themselves out and teach on line. It can't be a safe guarding issue for some teachers but not others.y sister would not mind online learning again as it was success ful for her dd. I would not like it because I don't trust my sons school would do it willingly. An excuse given to me was some children might not have a devise. Every single child iny sons class had a devise and several.children had iPads and laptop's and willing to lend one to a child without one. His school.just could not be bothered. Each teacher came in on a rota every third week for.one day. His school refused to have vulnerable children with a SW into school too. Only 8 children allowed in school. Very little work came home and nothing got marked. That is why I want my child on school. This happened in far too many schools. Yet other schools managed to do online learning with no issues.

Another parent saying thank you noble. My DD’s anxiety is through the roof as the sixth formers around her don’t stick to rules and it’s common sense that her packed classrooms aren’t safe. Yes she can wear a mask but until others do she’s only protecting them against her. No one wears them.
She has had people in her class test positive but because she doesn’t sit next to them she wasn’t told to isolate.
She would feel so much happier and learn better if Noble’s recommendations were in place.

It’s interesting to see how I’ve mentioned school support staff twice as being at risk but no one has replied - the focus seems to only be on teachers

I've reread the thread and the main person banging on about teachers is a troll. Lots of talk about students and parents from what I can see.

The same study that shows that support staff are at more risk than teachers is comparing both groups to frontline health workers. It doesn't say that a teacher/support staff is at the same/more risk than your average office worker, but e.g. a care home worker.

Our TAs have been wearing visors, but the evidence for these from what I can see is poor. I don't know how you can support a student with an EHCP from 2m away. Not sure what to do there, I know covid is a real problem in special schools.