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If the vaccine was immediately available for everyone - would you have it?

363 replies

Dinosaur19 · 09/11/2020 16:27

Not after an argument I’m just genuinely wondering! I have spoken to two friends and one would have it and one wouldn’t. If the vaccine (still with 90% effectivity) was available for everyone in the UK, would you have it straight away?

OP posts:
Dowser · 11/11/2020 10:27

This is an interesting article

www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4037?fbclid=IwAR2UPEbKYroCinqlzmwbglVM-RLlYTomkdsAb6cawQ10ZxS7oZ4orSfNw7s

I like this quote from the article.

Interesting quote

One view is that trial data should be there for all target populations. “If we don’t have adequate data in the greater than 65 year old group, then the greater than 65 year old person shouldn’t get this vaccine, which would be a shame because they’re the ones who are most likely to die from this infection,” said vaccinologist Paul Offit.8 “We have to generate those data,” he said. “I can’t see how anybody—the Data and Safety Monitoring Board or the FDA Vaccine Advisory Committee, or FDA decision-makers—would ever allow a vaccine to be recommended for that group without having adequate data.”

“I feel the same way about minorities,” Offit added. “You can’t convince minority populations to get this vaccine unless they are represented in these trials. Otherwise, they’re going to feel like they’re guinea pigs, and understandably so.”

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 11/11/2020 10:31

Thanks but NYT won’t let me log in...

TheKeatingFive · 11/11/2020 10:38

Pfizer do have data for 65+ in phase three

Rhubardandcustard · 11/11/2020 10:41

Not straight away. I have an auto immune disease so would want reassurances and proof this wouldn’t make my auto immune worse and that it would be worth having.

Sunshinegirl82 · 11/11/2020 10:43

So what he is saying is "if we don't have sufficient trial data for particular populations then the vaccine won't be approved for those particular populations"?

I'm fairly confident that the trial participants were quite diverse in both age and ethnicity as presumably the drug company know what data they need to collect to get the vaccine approved for the maximum number of people. I think they had trial participants up to age 84?

ConcernedAuntie · 11/11/2020 10:47

See also this quote -

But we should also remember that modern vaccines are safer than ever, and we should also take confidence in the fact that Pfizer’s agent (and the 170 or so similar projects in development worldwide against coronavirus) is building on research over 20 years into strains of coronavirus that cause Sars and Mers.

Yes I know it is the Daily Mail - www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8935677/Dr-MICHAEL-FITZPATRICK-launches-savage-assault-anti-vaxxers-want-boycott-new-jab.html

But it would seem that research into these types of viruses has been going on longer that this year.

ilovesooty · 11/11/2020 10:52

@Crazycatlady83

Of course it won’t be “mandatory” but I think it will be required to do things like travel. Countries with low rates don’t want imported cases and I think will still only want people if they provide a negative test or a are vaccinated
Yes, and I agree that it should be mandatory for international travel too unless there are clinical reasons why you can't be vaccinated.
Dowser · 11/11/2020 11:55

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel

Experts are concerned that the company has not been more forthcoming about two participants who became seriously ill after getting its experimental vaccine.

A technician supervised vaccine filling and packaging tests at a facility in Italy, which will assist in the production of the Oxford/AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine when it becomes available.

Dowser · 11/11/2020 11:56

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel

AstraZeneca revealed details of its large coronavirus vaccine trials on Saturday, the third in a wave of rare disclosures by drug companies under pressure to be more transparent about how they are testing products that are the world’s best hope for ending the pandemic.

Polls are finding Americans increasingly wary of accepting a coronavirus vaccine. And scientists inside and outside the government are worried that regulators, pressured by the president for results before Election Day on Nov. 3, might release an unproven or unsafe vaccine.

“The release of these protocols seems to reflect some public pressure to do so,” said Natalie Dean, a biostatistician and expert in clinical trial design for vaccines at the University of Florida. “This is an unprecedented situation, and public confidence is such a huge part of the success of this endeavor.”

Experts have been particularly concerned about AstraZeneca’s vaccine trials, which began in April in Britain, because of the company’s refusal to provide details about serious neurological illnesses in two participants, both women, who received its experimental vaccine in Britain. Those cases spurred the company to halt its trials twice, the second time earlier this month. The studies have resumed in Britain, Brazil, India and South Africa, but are still on pause in the U.S. About 18,000 people worldwide have received AstraZeneca’s vaccine so far.
AstraZeneca’s 111-page trial blueprint, known as a protocol, states that its goal is a vaccine with 50 percent effectiveness — the same threshold that the Food and Drug Administration has set in its guidance for coronavirus vaccines. To determine with statistical confidence whether the company has met that target, there will have to be 150 people ill with confirmed coronavirus among participants who were vaccinated or received placebo shots.

However, the plan anticipates that a safety board will perform an early analysis after there have been just 75 cases. If the vaccine is 50 percent effective at that point, it might be possible for the company to stop the trial early and apply for authorization from the government to release the vaccine for emergency use.

Thanks for reading The Times.
Subscribe to The Times
In allowing only one such interim analysis, AstraZeneca’s plan is more rigorous than the others that have been released, from Moderna and Pfizer, Dr. Eric Topol, a clinical trials expert at Scripps Research in San Diego, said in an interview. Moderna allows two such analyses, and Pfizer four.

He said the problem with looking at the data too many times, after a relatively small number of cases, is that it increases the odds of finding an appearance of safety and efficacy that might not hold up. Stopping trials early can also increase the risk of missing rare side effects that could be significant once the vaccine is given to millions of people.

Dr. Topol said AstraZeneca’s plan, like those of Moderna and Pfizer, had a problematic feature: All count relatively mild cases of Covid-19 when measuring efficacy, which may hamper efforts to determine whether the vaccine prevents moderate or severe illness.
Such plans are not usually shared with the public “due to the importance of maintaining confidentiality and integrity of trials,”

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 11/11/2020 11:58

Thanks Dowser x

WiseUpJanetWeiss · 11/11/2020 13:27

[quote Dowser]@TheCountessofFitzdotterel

Here
www.nytimes.com/2020/09/19/health/astrazeneca-vaccine-safety-blueprints.html[/quote]
This link is almost two months old. The trial recommenced in the UK in September and in the USA last month. I have seen reports that at least one of the trial subjects who had a serious adverse event was on the placebo arm.

The last paragraph in your pasted article is somewhat negated by the high level of efficacy demonstrated by the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine.

Yes, there are always risks and unknowns for any vaccine, but the likelihood of being harmed is several orders of magnitude lower than the likelihood of you being permanently harmed by a Covid infection.

Please don’t scaremonger.

FTMF30 · 11/11/2020 13:58

@WiseUpJanetWeiss I'm not sure how Dowser is scaremongering by providing details of an article.

You say you have seen reports of a trual subject having had the placebo - do you have a link?

ddl1 · 11/11/2020 14:15

Certainly!

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