To think the govt has no right to tell me who I'm allowed to have in my home?

[HumanFemale1]

Anyone else feels the same? I just don't think this is OK. Govt making the rules of who I am allowed to have in my home or how many people I'm allowed to have in...

Especially when it's to keep a virus from spreading when the average death of a virus is higher than the life expectancy. But for any reason really. If the govt was making this rule for any other reason people would be horiffied.

@52andblue
The Scottish justice minister is proposing that hate speech at home should be criminalised.
"Scotland’s proposed hate crime bill will penalize anyone whipping up hatred against “protected groups.” That includes people making “insulting” remarks within their own home, Justice Secretary Humza Yousaf has revealed."

Ah, so your Mum could pass it onto you and then you will pass it on to all the other people you see.

I wonder if that's how it spreads?

Anyone got any ideas? :)

I assume you voted? Do you understand that the ‘government’ are voted in by the everyone who is eligible to vote. We live in a democracy and part of the democratic process means that our representatives can make decisions on our behalf.

Maybe rather than starting stroppy threads on Mumsnet you could write to your MP

We’ve had this since March ? Welcome to George Orwell’s 1984.

I agree,,it is not ok. It is far from ok...(but you won't get many people agreeing with you here!!!! Because these people like rules! and like following them!!! and hate those that question. Be warned).

But if you want debate than you have to accept that others will have a different opinion to your own otherwise it's not a debate is it ?

Honestly I think we should cut the country in half. On one side we could put all the people who aren't prepared to adhere to the rules. Their kids could be educated by teachers who are likeminded (if they can find any). Obviously there wouldn't be any access to hospitals for these people, or government support, etc. On the other side of the wall, we could have people who are prepared to adhere to what the government is recommending. I think this would work for everyone - more space in the hospitals, much easier to suppress the virus, etc on the compliant side of the fence. I do understand what you are saying about civil liberties, but it's part of being in a society.

You’ll do what you like I imagine but YABVU. It’s people like you that are very, very dangerous.

No one visits my house so its no different to normal.

When people talk about the NHS being out of action do they know what it would mean if we became completely overwhelmed by covid cases?

Worst case scenario - at some point you can’t admit any more patients to the hospital. Not just to ITU, that ship would sail way before, but you no longer have the capacity to treat patients - not just those with covid but those with heart attacks, strokes, trauma patients...mortality from everything would rise hugely because you just don’t have the facilities and the staff available to treat patients.

You don’t just see thousands of covid deaths but thousands of other deaths caused by all the other illnesses and conditions we treat day in day out. You have to move to a disaster medicine type situation - trying to do the most good for patients with very little resource but not being able to give the care anyone expects.

That is the reality. It isn’t, oh my outpatient appointment got postponed or my operation has been delayed - it is the reduced treatment of everyone no matter what they have.

When we talk about protecting the NHS it is slowly the transmission and case numbers so we can give each and every person care and no end up in that hellish situation.

@loulouljh

I agree,,it is not ok. It is far from ok...(but you won't get many people agreeing with you here!!!! Because these people like rules! and like following them!!! and hate those that question. Be warned).

Nothing wrong with questioning things at all. What is wrong is approaching a difficult and contentious issue with an evident lack of critical thinking skills or balancing opinion with verified fact

It does scare me slightly how quickly a new law can be introduced. It's very much like the film V for vendetta something new and scary, means we're happy for the government to tell us what to do to protect us. Would we be so quick to accept a total ban on smoking, alcohol, fatty foods? Would we accept mandatory exercise to keep us all healthy? We don't even have mandatory childhood vaccinations, despite them saving lives.

I'm following the rules, within reason and in a way I feel is more sensible actually. But I don't think the government are overly concerned about saving our lives, it's about how they'd look if the nhs had to turn patients away and the backlash they'd receive.

@countbackfromten

When people talk about the NHS being out of action do they know what it would mean if we became completely overwhelmed by covid cases?

Worst case scenario - at some point you can’t admit any more patients to the hospital. Not just to ITU, that ship would sail way before, but you no longer have the capacity to treat patients - not just those with covid but those with heart attacks, strokes, trauma patients...mortality from everything would rise hugely because you just don’t have the facilities and the staff available to treat patients.

You don’t just see thousands of covid deaths but thousands of other deaths caused by all the other illnesses and conditions we treat day in day out. You have to move to a disaster medicine type situation - trying to do the most good for patients with very little resource but not being able to give the care anyone expects.

That is the reality. It isn’t, oh my outpatient appointment got postponed or my operation has been delayed - it is the reduced treatment of everyone no matter what they have.

When we talk about protecting the NHS it is slowly the transmission and case numbers so we can give each and every person care and no end up in that hellish situation.

Quite. Our medics are about to have refresher moral harm training to prepare them for if (when) they have to make a choice about who gets treatment and who dies.

Have a think about that.

I'm not breaking lockdown, I'm very obedient.

That doesn't mean I'm not concerned by legislation controlling who can and can't come into my home.

What I find strange is that the government in the UK or rather England (I'm not sure about the others) are very reluctant to institute any type of border control, so quarantining people coming into the UK for 2 weeks in a hotel, similar to New Zealand style. It seems odd that they don't want to put in place any type of more coercive measures at the border, but are then trying to police who we have in our own homes.

I know it's not an either or, just musing on why in March and why again in August the gov't just feel unable to properly quarantine incomers to the UK...I get it wouldn't be the entire solution but it might have been a start.

@JinglingHellsBells

Ah, so your Mum could pass it onto you and then you will pass it on to all the other people you see.

I wonder if that's how it spreads?

Anyone got any ideas? :)

Well that's my point, I don't think banning my mom from coming to my place to reduce the spread over a virus is OK meanwhile we're both seeing lots of customers/students/commuters etc. every day at work.

How about either scrolling on by or opening your minds to the possibility that others might not have the same opinion as you! And that doesn't mean their automatically wrong

This. We might not have Brexit if people hadn't constantly been told they were being racist when they were concerned about immigration.

And we've also had the recent thread about teachers expressing political views and pushing the "acceptable" view. There isn't always an "acceptable" view - there are other views.

I agree with restrictions on mixing inside but I can definitely see the OP's point about it being a very serious restriction on our freedoms.

@Muchadoaboutlife

So my kid can go to school and sit next to somebody day after day but I can’t have that kids mum in my house for a coffee. I’m not going to be licking her face. The whole thing is OTT and typical British ridiculous. Everyone just needs to be sensible and stick to that.

It's about minimising contact and risk.

If infected child A is sharing a space with 30 other kids, and they're in contact with 2 other people on average, then that's around 90people potentially infected. (30 kids + 60ish family members)

But risk is minimised because of the bubbles. So may be... Let's say 3 kids infected, and 6 family members. So a total 9 people. But they aren't going anywhere else. So it's contained to a degree.
Eg Child A infects Child B, and they infect Parent B1 and Parent B2, and it stops, because they stay at home.

However, if then all of a sudden class families could mix with each other at homes, then that just increases the risk of infection. If families that are infected, are coming in contact with others, then you're more likely to pass the virus on to the other class families. Eg infection might pass from Child A, to Parent A, to Parent B, to child B, to Child C, to parent C... Etc

When people talk about the NHS being out of action do they know what it would mean if we became completely overwhelmed by covid cases

I guess it would be similar to when it was overwhelmed by flu cases about 3 years ago.

Limits on our freedoms are the price we pay for living relatively safely whilst surrounded by other people (those and taxes). You have accepted these limits your whole life. I’m assuming you don’t steal what you need but buy it? You live in your own home, you don’t roam the streets looking for a nicer looking place to annex? You take care of your small children/elderly/unwell dependents even when they annoy you instead of kicking them out? You send your kids to school instead of letting them live a feral existence? All these are limits on freedom that we accept for the greater good. The current restrictions are an extension of this. Most of us accept them because we can see the need for them.

If you want to live completely by your own rules you need to move to a solitary wilderness. Then you can do as you please - but then there won’t be anyone else around to visit you. And if another free thinker decides he likes the look of your beautiful, solitary compound there won’t be any police or laws to protect you.

And for the people scaremongering that this might never end - we live in a democracy. If a government tried to force these laws on us when they are no longer recognised as important for national safety they wouldn’t remain in power very long.

But if you're allowed your mum over, then I'm allowed my mum over, and why not my dad, and my sister and my cousins... And my neighbours.... And if you're allowed, then why aren't millions of others?

Why bother locking down at all?

Because we have to minimise the risk of infection... Simple stuff

The government are not trying to curb who you see in your home; they are trying to curb a virus that could overwhelm the NHS and stop its role in treating people for this and other illnesses.

So far, it is not working well. I wonder if that might be because of people like you?

If we should be doing what we can to save lives than gyms should be open, alcohol and cigarettes should be banned, driving and junk food too and we should have mandatory one hour exercises. This would save millions of lives.

I’m in NZ.

We went hard and we went early. We stayed home and saved lives. Have we eradicated the virus? No, because we will always have people arriving into NZ from pandemic-riddle countries (who definitely do not have it under control).

But - it’s being managed at the border. And in the meantime, life has returned to normal here.

We see our friends, we go out, we eat out, we socialise. The kids go to school. Play weekend sports.

Life is normal for us here as we head into summer, except no overseas holidays.

Just offering an alternative perspective - in the interests of debate.

We came together (very metaphorically) for our communities, and the greater good - by giving up our freedoms for a short while, and staying apart.

Yes, it’s easier to manage in an isolated island nation with a small population, yada, yada. But that does not mean that we didn’t all make unprecedented sacrifices.

But because when we did do it, we meant business, we haven’t since been fucking around, never getting it under control. And then going into lockdown anyway.

We went hard and we went early. And we’ve been rewarded as a country-wide team by returning to life as normal.

Isn’t that what everyone wants?

@cologne4711

When people talk about the NHS being out of action do they know what it would mean if we became completely overwhelmed by covid cases

I guess it would be similar to when it was overwhelmed by flu cases about 3 years ago.

Worse, given the number of staff who have returned to the EU following the Brexit vote.