Why doesn’t China have a second wave?

[Custardcream67]

China had the initial wave of infections early 2020 then hardly any cases since. Their population is much bigger than UK. How can they have it so under control. Seems suspicious to me.

1. Because the rule of the govt. is absolute.

1. Because all media/scientific recording is state-controlled so you’ll only hear what the state wants you to hear.

1. People who threaten the state are disposed of. Quickly. Including academics.

So those of us with eye witness accounts of life being back to normal are all lying then?

Nobody here has excused the Chinese govt’s treatment of the Uighurs.

We have a lot of people here practically salivating over extreme measures China has taken, and boasting of how "obedient" the population are without thinking of why they are so obedient and how measures are enforced. It seems that they have no problem with people being controlled to this extent, indeed many see it as desirable.

After the first wave in China there were reports (denied by their government) of people being herded into hospitals which were then sealed and they were left to die. So probably the old weak and vulnerable all died then. Subsequent infections are quickly contained so there no second wave (or at least not one resulting in deaths).

Australia has also very nearly eliminated it. Foreign arrivals are put on a bus and escorted by police from the airport to a hotel where they have to stay for 14 days without leaving the room. No fresh air, no exercise, no socialising. Meals left outside the door.
The result is completely normal life in most States as they have all sealed their borders. Compare that with the laughable mandatory quarantine in this country where people are allowed to leave the airport on public transport.

Because China lies about everything.

@ShanghaiDiva

So those of us with eye witness accounts of life being back to normal are all lying then?

Agree. China cracked down early and hard, they did not mess about advising people to shake hands or travel abroad.

Just because they may have lied about CV early on, doesn't mean they are doing so now.

They appear to have done what NZ did but on a grand scale.

They had a proper quarantine, have worn masks for decades, follow their governments advice and don’t sneak into each other’s houses. Proper locked down border and quarantine

@Missandra

As pp said last time they welded people’s doors shut so they couldn’t leave their homes. I’d rather catch the virus (which I did) than leave in China.

Again as already stated they did not seal people in so that they couldn't leave in an emergency but they did electronically seal doors so they could monitor people leaving

@AllPlayedOut
As I have said before, we complied because we were scared. Nobody knew very much about the virus, the incubation period etc at the end of March. I wore a mask and complied with the rules because it was in the interest of the whole to do so. Just as I have complied with all the rules in the uk. I did not fear that I would be dragged to a detention centre for not complying. If if did no wear a mask I would not be be able to enter the supermarket: no drama, no police, just no entry.
The question is why no second wave? The answer is: tough measures.
Measures in the uk were too late (compare Australia’s response back on 1st Feb) and poorly managed. It was clear what was happening prior to lockdown and yet Cheltenham racing went ahead- sheer madness.
I am in favour of strict measures, but do not treatment of the uighurs and have seen for myself what life is like in Xinjiang province.

It’s not just China that has got the virus under control. South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong too.

There are many differences between the Asian approach and the Western approach. It’s a combination of closing borders, testing, tracing, mask wearing and quarantining.

Of all these, I’d say the one that makes most difference is probably the way in which patients and their close contacts are immediately removed from the community.

Taking Hong Kong as an example, anyone who tests positive is immediately hospitalised in specific, negative pressure wards. They will remain in hospital until they have tested negative a number of times.

Contact tracing is done immediately and all close contacts are moved to quarantine facilities, where they are also monitored for a number of days.

For example, there was one local case in Hong Kong today. As a result, 16 close contacts were identified and moved to quarantine. A school was closed for two weeks and other venues where the woman had been were disinfected.

This heavy handed approach means that infections are not seeded in the community.

The requirement to quarantine is also strictly enforced. People coming in from very high risk countries (Bangladesh, Nepal) are sent to quarantine centres. People from high risk countries (the U.K., France) have to quarantine in a hotel room, even if they live in HK. All also have to undergo a test before flying, and another on arrival. People quarantining have to wear an electronic bracelet which tracks their movement. Police will come and enforce against rule breakers.

@DontCryForMeNextdoorNeighbour
I will ask again. Those of us with eye witness accounts, are we also lying?

@ShanghaiDiva

I have posted this photo before. This is my dh returning to China in March. He had to wear this suit and was then transferred to the quarantine facility: no home isolation, no trip to the supermarket, no public transport. This is one of the ways they controlled the virus.

But do you think this is a good thing Shanghai diva? I think this is where we come at crossed purposes. I look at that picture of your husband and think it is awful and it puts a chill down my spine and I am so glad not to live in a country where that is forced upon it’s people but that is obviously not the way the Chinese view it. They accept it and seem to be pleased about it for the greater good or at least resigned to it would you say? I think this is where the cultures are so different and why we cannot control the virus here like they can in China. If people want to wear that fine but I don’t think it is acceptable to force people to do so

@ShanghaiDiva

I lived in China for 12 years and relocated this summer. No second wave is due to the following: Borders are closed to international travelers and have been since 27th March Strict quarantine procedures, my dh spent two weeks in a quarantine facility and sometimes this is followed by home isolation Effective test and trace During the initial lockdown they stopped travel between provinces Mask wearing from day one back in January Private clinics closed in January and people with symptoms had to go to hospitals to be tested and their contacts were traced. This is the very opposite of the uk approach of stay at home if you have symptoms Very strict measures in schools: no entry to school if temp above normal and temps all checked at lunchtime too. Temp checks air ports Health code on phone: if it’s green you can eg travel on metro if it’s red you need to get tested, all okay, back to green and so it continues. The pandemic has not been handled well in this country: too little, too late and therefore it comforts us to believe that China is lying about its case numbers. Whatever the true figures this is what is happening now in the city I used to live I : All school kids back Halloween parties with no masks Restaurants open Weddings with no masks Work as normal- my dh’s company went back at the end of Feb. Zoo open After school activities happening Inter school sports competitions back on This is not govt propaganda but directly from the school, from Facebook and from friends of mine. Of course it’s more palatable to believe that China is lying rather than reflect on our own poor management of the crisis.

This with bells on

They also have a vaccine

ShanghaiDiva, you will never convince the Mumsnet xenophobes. They believe what they want to believe.

@sashagabadon

But I don’t want to live in a country where anxious people are forced to wear masks. No thanks. I much prefer our voluntary compliance even if not 100% than forcing anxious people to do something that they find it very difficult to do Thank god I live here!

I don't want people to pretend they are "anxious" because they can't be bothered to follow the rules and put the rest of us at risk, and bringing restrictions to the rest of us.

There's no way the Brits are so fragile they are the only ones to be "anxious" about masks - when other countries are absolutely fine. They might not like them and be very vocal about them, but they have 0 physical issue. Even young kids and women in labour have to wear masks! Funnily enough they are fine.

The very small amount of people REALLY unable to wear a mask is put at risk by this all nonsense anyway, they should be the first to push for stricter rules.

I think there's a number of good reasons they are doing better:

1. Previous experience of pandemics - millions there had been through the drill before
2. Very controlling, central government and no compunctions about surveillance (not saying this is a good thing, but helpful in a pandemic!)
3. Deferential society with a more collectivist outlook

One thing this pandemic has shown up is how societal attitudes affect the impact of the virus.

Yes, I would also not trust all the figures they come up with, but I do believe they have it much more under control for reasons given above.

@TruckinRight ShanghaiDiva, you will never convince the Mumsnet xenophobes. They believe what they want to believe.

Appalling and entirely unjustified accusation. Reported.

It's authoritarianism but they should be commended for how they have eradicated the virus from china. They stamped down on travel forced quarantine and you have no choice about testing and isolation. They can control the population like it isn't possible in the west.

A family member works in Covid research and said they ended up ignoring the data China provided to the international medical community. It had clearly been plucked from thin air.

I look at that picture of your husband and think it is awful and it puts a chill down my spine and I am so glad not to live in a country where that is forced upon it’s people but that is obviously not the way the Chinese view it

Yes much better to be in a body bag.

What has our softly softly approach got us?

There is probably a middle way, such as Japan or even Germany to keep many freedoms but limit the CV death rate.

But as with all the countries with populist leaders, we have avoided the harsh decisions
UK has stuck with private good public bad but then about turn & do them when its all too late.

A family member works in Covid research and said they ended up ignoring the data China provided to the international medical community. It had clearly been plucked from thin air.

This.

@sashagabadon
I view it as a type of medicine: not pleasant, but part of the solution. The transfer to a quarantine facility is exactly what happens in Australia, although not sure about the hazmat suit! Another way of looking at Is that by wearing a suit he is also protected from other passengers arriving back in China.
Also it was not forced on the entire population: this was a measure introduced for those returning to China and to prevent the virus being reimported.
After his two weeks in quarantine life was pretty normal for my dh in China: he went to work, shopping restaurants, group events etc.
So short term pain for longer term benefit?

[quote DontCryForMeNextdoorNeighbour]@TruckinRight ShanghaiDiva, you will never convince the Mumsnet xenophobes. They believe what they want to believe.

Appalling and entirely unjustified accusation. Reported.[/quote]
Or perhaps you could consider why you identified yourself as a target of my comment.

Mumsnet needs to address the xenophobia on here. OK, they now take down anti-traveller racism, and have created a black section. These are excellent steps. But the anti-Chinese stuff still runs and runs.