The effect of schools staying open on people's compliance

[bringbackCabanas]

I DO NOT want schools to close. I'm happy to send my kids in and will continue to do so.

But, the amount of times I hear, or read on here, "well if they sit at school together all day then they can do x y z outside of school" or "my child is mixing with x amount of people five days a week so what's the point of following the rules?"

Basically that if schools are still open then it's not really a "lockdown" and not everyone will take it seriously.

Judging by the messages on our school Facebook group, most parents aren’t regarding this as a ‘proper’ lockdown at all.

It is full of messages scoffing and insisting on house parties/play dates/coffee meets going ahead as planned. Quite a few have said they will only take it seriously when the schools close as then they will know for sure that it’s ‘bad enough’.

I understand why they feel that way but don’t completely agree.

It is full of messages scoffing and insisting on house parties/play dates/coffee meets going ahead as planned. Quite a few have said they will only take it seriously when the schools close as then they will know for sure that it’s ‘bad enough’.

Wow

Maybe the Government need to communicate better that we're all making sacrifices so that schools and hospitals can stay open.

I don't want schools to close, but as they haven't been opened safely, symptoms that many children present with are not seen as test-worthy, school conditions are perfect for this virus etc, t, t and t is not working effectively, I think it is madness not to have a reset, with schools closed for two weeks and then lock down other areas as appropriate. If it's to be schools open at all costs, then a safer model is needed, backed up by testing for symptoms that kids display. Pissing around and tinkering at the edges whilst cases are going through the roof just costs more jobs, money and health in the long term. It's like fixing a leaking kitchen tap whilst the bath is overflowing upstairs.

I think current situation is hard for people with young children below school age full stop. Two mums with babies can't go for a SD walk outside with masks etc together. A mum on mat leave can't meet anyone in the day. I guess she could get a babysitter and increase risk just to go for a walk with another adult, but that too seems bonkers.

You can 'sacrifice'all you want but understand your 'sacrifice' is literally pointless if your kids are in a secondary school where the virus is circulating.

Schools staying open makes me more complainant as I don’t want to risk them closing if we don’t comply on everything else

I agree that I will comply with the lockdown as long as the schools remain open.

If they shut the schools, then I will allow my DC to socialise with one other household (our neighbours and their DC) irrespective of whether or not it is legal.

Are childcare bubbles still allowed?

@LST

Are childcare bubbles still allowed?

Yes

@midgebabe phew! Thanks!

@Smelliethenelephant

You can 'sacrifice'all you want but understand your 'sacrifice' is literally pointless if your kids are in a secondary school where the virus is circulating.

No that's incorrect.

We need R to be below 1. Not 0. Therefore we can afford to have some mixing of people. Then we prioritise which mixing we allow

Say no mixing of anyone means R is zero
Normal, pre covid mixing means R is about 3

As mixing of people increases, R increases

What we hope /expect is that R can be below 1 if schools are open provided lots of other social contact is cut.

Yes in school transmission will occur, but that's fine as long as on average R is less than 1.

Given DS is mingling pretty freely at school & travelling by bus, and DGD is going to nursery 3 days & spending 1 day pw here, I do think that whatever else I do / do not do is unlikely to make much difference at all.

See chew, if they mix and you mix that's more mixing than if just the children mix

If they mix and you don't, your family may still have a higher than average mixing value, true. But lower than if you mix also.

Luckily some people will have lower mixing values, so helping your family out

If everyone with above average mixing decided not to bother, then we will be up shit creek . We need to get the average mixing value down.

So yes, some people will be above average, but that's ok provided the average mixing value is low enough

@Sunflowers246

I will comply and make sacrifices SO THAT schools and hospitals can stay open.

This!

Its about reducing our overall interactions to stem transmission. Some interactions are essential like learning or working or providing support for someone, some interactions like meeting for coffee , going to the gym, extra curricular activities, playdates, having beauty treatments arent essential at the moment . The less we do outside of school the less chance of taking the virus into school to spread on to others.

It’s so frustrating. I have no children and live alone in London - yes technically I can have a support bubble but it’s not really that simple and I don’t “need” one so I barely see anyone. I will comply but it makes me wonder why I’m bothering when people seem to think their kids should be able to go to school and then be out and about and in contact with a load of other people at the weekend. People living in families, especially with multiple children so the kids have siblings, are not isolated and frankly if you don’t like your family then that’s your problem and nothing to do with COVID!

I have always said I would do anything g to keep my 3 DCs in school and I will. We are in Scotland central belt so have been under pretty strict rules for a while now which I follow. Their generation’s education is the priority now especially since they will be paying for this pandemic with their taxes for the rest of their lives probably.

@Mumofsend

The school thing doesnt bother me. Due to SDDs additional needs she only really leaves the house to go to school anyway. The one that1 reduces my compliance is good old Dominic Cummings. Nearly broke me not having support for the first lockdown. Then to hear the idea of putting family first... that's what I will be doing this time

I agree with this 💯. The actions of Dominic Cummings have and continue to massively affect compliance. Before that happened most people were living within the rules, often to the substantial detriment of themselves and their families, in service of the greater good. Lone parents, carers, the disabled, the elderly, people with no family or friends to Zoom with for emotional support, those who lost their incomes and essential workers who were exposed to Covid daily all complied — even when it felt arbitrary, even when their particular situation was made nearly impossible and a common-sense solution was clear. And for once (to varying degrees of course) it felt like people in power, celebrities, and the wealthy were affected too. We were all mucking in.

Then along comes Dominic Cummings, a married father of one and a man with bottomless financial and social resources, claiming that his family situation was so unique and and desperate that it warranted breaking the rules. What a kick in the pants for those of us who had sacrificed so much already. And worse yet there was no resignation and no public mea culpa of any kind. To the contrary, Boris accepted the truly farcical explanation Cummings offered for his actions.

How can people be expected to trust the government and follow the rules after that?? It might be different if Cummings has admitted fault or offered some type of apology, or if Boris had imposed any kind of consequences on him. But that didn’t happen, and here we are. Fuck them.

We need R to be below 1. Not 0. Therefore we can afford to have some mixing of people. Then we prioritise which mixing we allow

So if you’re a teacher or member of staff working at the school and either you get the virus or bring it home to your family, that’s OK ...as long as the R rate doesn’t go over 1.

I think some people are being expected to take bigger risks and make bigger sacrifices than others.

There are already loads of people on our local 8/10 mums FB group saying there’s no point in not going to the playground with school friends as they are together in a classroom/hall/playground all day.

I suspect compliance will be low.

@Smelliethenelephant

You can 'sacrifice'all you want but understand your 'sacrifice' is literally pointless if your kids are in a secondary school where the virus is circulating.

But that’s not actually true, do you not see that? It’s not a black and white issue of exposure vs non-exposure. It’s more like a continuum, where more and longer incidents of exposure cause transmission to rise, and less exposure slows the transmission. And every regulation must of course be balanced against its negative effects. So even if exposure at school is allowed, it does NOT negate the effect of lessening exposure elsewhere.

No matter what happens there will never be a complete lockdown — people will always need to care for the vulnerable, keep the food supply going, and quite literally keep the lights on. That doesn’t mean all other lockdown efforts are pointless. In fact, those essential workers themselves should still try to limit their exposure to what is essential.

Right now the effects of closing school are deemed too great to warrant closing, but obviously if it gets too high that will have to happen. We can help prevent that and keep our kids in school by minimizing all other contact.

Do you honestly not get this? I will check back in case you have more questions.

If all the schools in other countries in europe close, pressure will grow on johnson to close the schools.
If we have a LOT of school closures due to positive tests in the SE next week, pressure will grown on Johnson to close schools.

Personally my money is on high schools switching to home learning by the end of November/ beginning of December. But we shall see.

I suspect Primary Schools are more likely to remain open throughout though.

Of course it will reduce compliance. The first lockdown had people believe they were making sacrifices to protect others and themselves - now that schools are open many will think oh I'll get it anyway, it's inevitable while the schools are open under current conditions. Of course some will then decide they might as well continue as normal as they can

If all the schools in other countries in europe close, pressure will grow on johnson to close the schools.

I can't see Germans accepting school closures!

The impact of children not being in school on our collective future recovery from this shitshow is massive.

I think our supposed government are unwilling however to put in place strategies to make schools safer environments (rota for older kids, masks, allow them to use other spaces & locations, proper testing available) is purely because it doesn't play well to the gallery of their core vote. Oh and incompetence.

The structure, education and socialisation of my DCs remaining in school makes it easier to comply. The DCs needs are met. I am able to comply and meet my social needs for quiet time and external company.

We were climbing into playgrounds by June because my 7yo was showing depressive behaviour for weeks.
We go out walking with another family of 4 because it's wrong to be banned from seeing friends in a low risk environment for what may well be towards a year and my children have a right to maintain that friendship. Especially when we are now at the point that it's a year since they have seen some family due to logistical reasons. Especially when having ASD, DS1's close friendships are rare, precious and can't be maintained remotely.

I am prepared to pause that for the stated 4 weeks. Not indefinitely.

@Sunflowers246

I will comply and make sacrifices SO THAT schools and hospitals can stay open.

This.