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Secondary schools are fucked

467 replies

noblegiraffe · 31/10/2020 11:45

The latest ONS data for infection rates in pupils in Y7-11 shows that they are now nearly as high for university students, the ones who were getting blamed for catching it at pubs and parties.

The latest data for number of cases per 100,000 in each year group looks alarming, even more so when you realise that the latest column is an underestimate. The figures for Y11 in particular are horrendous, and this is a crucial exam year group.

Attendance data for secondary schools is going down each week - 82% according to the latest data (excluding those on half term).

On 22nd October an estimated 557,000 pupils were off school, either isolating, or with covid (this includes primaries, I can't see the data for just secondaries).

On 22nd October, 55% of secondary schools had at least 1 pupil self-isolating due to contact with a case in school.

There is, as far as a I can see, no discussion from those in charge about what to do about this. Schools are a priority, except when it comes to talking about them. Data is hidden, covered up or just ignored. People use arguments about primary schools (parents need to work!) to apply to all ages of pupil.

Secondary schools were set up with 'bubbles'. Risk assessments were based on premise that bubbles would be mixing, and would be sent home if there were cases. This was abandoned a few weeks into term when the DfE elbowed PHE out of the way and took over the the decisions about who would be sent home. Now only 'close contacts' are sent home rather than whole bubbles, which makes no sense in the context of what we know about covid transmission in poorly ventilated spaces with no social distancing. Kids who were told that they could mix 'because they were in a bubble' are now wondering why they're in a bubble but not in a bubble in any meaningful sense.

If, when it comes to any upcoming lockdown, the message is 'schools will stay open' and there is no distinguishing between primary and secondary, and no discussion about how this trend in secondary can be addressed, then be aware that any lockdown isn't going to solve the problem because it's spreading in secondary schools.

PS: I don't want schools to close but they shouldn't stay open as they are because the data shows there's a real problem with as they are. I do want a discussion about specifically secondary so talk about primary elsewhere. If you find the data scary then that's a problem with the situation, not me posting it. I don't want any anecdotes about how your school hasn't had any cases unless you put the word 'yet' at the end of it. If your school has masks everywhere that's great for your school, but the government says their use should be avoided in classrooms and their use in corridors is only mandated in lockdown areas. Schools are not all open in Europe.

Some suggestions: masks, ventilation, review of who is being sent home, regular testing (especially if there are cases), review of fines for pupils who would be safer at home, review of working conditions for ECV teachers, it to be made clear that if a school sends your child home they are legally required to isolate.

Secondary schools are fucked
Secondary schools are fucked
OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Pikachubaby · 31/10/2020 16:15

Maybe the secret plan is to let all young people get it, and then they can all continue with their education? Herd immunity for youngsters?

I mean, schools were never going to be able to contain the virus to bubbles. That was always clearly a bit of an illusion, right?

Gright · 31/10/2020 16:19

@NJool you really don't seem to have grasped that all of these asymptomatic children have families that they go home to. Yes children are unaffected by and large but all the evidence points to the fact that they are carriers.

Also, as a teacher am I to sacrifice myself with no PPE so that you can keep your kids at school. Everyone, myself included, wants them in school but it has to be safe for everyone. We are not martyrs.

Finally, this is a new virus. No one knows how it will affect anyone in the long term. It's incredibly stupid to say that they will be better off getting it now.

Icanflyhigh · 31/10/2020 16:21

Schools need to close. End of. All of the fannying around of the last 6 months should have been directed towards setting up online learning.

While bubbles are still 300+ in secondary school, and all those super spreaders are mixing, the cycle will not be broken.

AllDoneIn · 31/10/2020 16:27

The gaslighting of teachers raising concerns is utterly disgusting. It is in all our interests to keep schools open. Teachers have repeatedly made suggestions around ventilation, mask wearing and distancing - all have been ignored.

Teateaandmoretea · 31/10/2020 16:29

The gaslighting of teachers raising concerns is utterly disgusting.

So is the gaslighting of parents and others who disagree.

monkeytennis97 · 31/10/2020 16:31

@Teateaandmoretea

The gaslighting of teachers raising concerns is utterly disgusting.

So is the gaslighting of parents and others who disagree.

Oh do me a favour 😂
Teateaandmoretea · 31/10/2020 16:32

@monkeytennis97 perfectly happy to do you shopping if that helps Hmm

Teateaandmoretea · 31/10/2020 16:33

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

motherrunner · 31/10/2020 16:36

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Quotes a deleted post.

Teateaandmoretea · 31/10/2020 16:37

@northernrunner so being called a teacher is now an ugly insult?

You think chucking kids under a bus for a virus that affects the elderly is okay?

MrsSpenserGregson · 31/10/2020 16:37

@Teateaandmoretea

The gaslighting of teachers raising concerns is utterly disgusting.

So is the gaslighting of parents and others who disagree.

I have not seen any gaslighting of parents.

Surely school staff are the ones who are best-placed to say what would help to contain the virus in schools? Given that they are the ones actually working there? (y'know, in conditions which would not be deemed "Covid secure" in any other workplace).

Why oh why do so many people hold teachers and support staff in such contempt?? Do you automatically get transported back to your own school days? Or do you mistakenly believe that all these degree-educated staff are, somehow, stupid?

Teateaandmoretea · 31/10/2020 16:37

You think laughing about closing schools is reasonable?

motherrunner · 31/10/2020 16:38

I can assure you from the conversations I have had with @monkeytennis97, she is one of the most compassionate people I know.

Teateaandmoretea · 31/10/2020 16:38

I have not seen any gaslighting of parents.

I have seen lots

noblegiraffe · 31/10/2020 16:38

Derailing threads with nonsense when the personal insults didn’t work. Desperate.

OP posts:
Teateaandmoretea · 31/10/2020 16:39

she is one of the most compassionate people I know.

She was the one laughing, not me. There is nothing remotely funny about this

Teateaandmoretea · 31/10/2020 16:40

Derailing threads with nonsense when the personal insults didn’t work. Desperate.

No desperate is posting the same nonsense 24/7

christinarossetti19 · 31/10/2020 16:40

Ugly and daft. Having a different opinion isn't 'finding damage to children funny'.

Reading through this thread (and others), it seems that the 'gaslighting' is refusing to engage with the data in the OP which is from the ONS so hardly flippant or irrelevant.

Pointing out the problems in statements like 'the virus hardly affects children' or 'there have hardly been any cases in my town' isn't 'gaslighting'. It's disagreeing, not denying reality.

motherrunner · 31/10/2020 16:41

[quote Teateaandmoretea]@northernrunner so being called a teacher is now an ugly insult?

You think chucking kids under a bus for a virus that affects the elderly is okay?[/quote]
No, I’m a teacher and I’m proud to be a teacher.

What I find insulting is that you think we are ‘chucking kids under the bus’. We’re really not. We want schools to be open - safely - so we can stay open.

SaltyAndFresh · 31/10/2020 16:41

@Teateaandmoretea

The gaslighting of teachers raising concerns is utterly disgusting.

So is the gaslighting of parents and others who disagree.

Disagree with what? That school staff are on danger.

I think you should rephrase: try ... 'parents who couldn't give less of a fuck about adults in schools, as long as they get exactly what they want.'

Teateaandmoretea · 31/10/2020 16:41

Ugly and daft. Having a different opinion isn't 'finding damage to children funny'.

The laughing emoji. It isn’t funny in any way at all

mrsm43s · 31/10/2020 16:42

@noblegiraffe

Ironically, the big rise in cases in the Yr7-11 age group seems to roughly correlate to the beginning of half term in many parts of the country!

You’re forgetting about incubation periods. We won’t know the real impact of half term till next week.

The average incubation period is 5 days.

So given that schools broke up for half term on either the 16th or the 23rd, if schools were the cause of transmission, then we'd expect to see a drop in prevalence in school aged children on or around the 21st. Then from the 28th you'd expect to see another fall, since I believe more children have the later weeks holiday.

To put it simply, from the 16th onwards for 16 days, less children were in school due to half term. Given the average incubation period of Covid is 5 days, if schools were the cause of the spread, then less school age children will have the virus in the period from 21st October - 6th November (the period +5 days incubation from the time less children are in school).

Unless schools are not the cause of transmission, and that school aged children contract covid as much or more from the community than from being in school, and the increase in numbers in school age children is simply a reflection of the increase in levels of infection in the general population outside of schools.

NJool · 31/10/2020 16:42

Eh. I work in education. The ignorance from some users is astonishing. Which is why there so much misunderstanding and actual stupidity.

Corona viruses have been around for millennia. Yes it’s a new virus. Yes there’s no vaccine yet and who knows if there will be.

The majority of people are fine with the virus. There are some people that aren’t. But the nhs is being redirected. People are dying of other curable illnesses because people are so
Afraid of this virus.

Children’s education, mental health etc is affected.

@Gright Teachers - all schools vary in their use of Ppe etc so maybe go back and speak to your headteacher.

Teateaandmoretea · 31/10/2020 16:43

I think you should rephrase: try ... 'parents who couldn't give less of a fuck about adults in schools, as long as they get exactly what they want.'

Don’t be so utterly ridiculous. My children deserve education like you had. If you don’t like it then resign. End up jobless like a very one else.

NJool · 31/10/2020 16:44

@mrsm43s you speak to logic but unfortunately there’s so much misunderstanding and scaremongering it’s ridiculous