Are we heading for another national lockdown

[thebeachismyhappyplace2]

Do you think we are going in the same direction as France and Germany? And do you think schools will stay open if we do?

[quote Oaktree55]@MarshaBradyo France, Austria, Belgium.....they’ve all tried the regional approaches, the curfews etc. They don’t work well enough and now they’re in National Lockdown. Germany led by a scientist is doing the right thing in a national restriction but earlier as we should have done a month ago.

It’s no longer a debate it’s inevitable and you can listen to as many MP’s as you like on Radio 4 or whatever you do. Try listening to scientists. It’s not an opinion it’s a fact sooner or later and hopefully sooner the U.K. will be in National Lockdown. Go and read the chess board and the wheat story guys.[/quote]
Do you not listen to R4? They do have scientists on you know. Or is it all Twitter scare shite for you.

Germany and France haven’t shut schools.

Whatever people are gagging for a national lockdown like it’s Christmas. Bonkers.

[quote Branches1]@ElizabethG81
@Codexdivinchi
@bookworm14

I agree with all of you.

We can't keep locking down, it is NOT an acceptable solution. Far from everyone qualifies for furlough pay, so we worry about our personal finances, and also about the bigger picture - who is going to pay for the unparalleled government borrowing that is funding all these covid measures? Who is going to pay for the NHS (and everything else) in the future?

We worry for everyone whose health is at risk from a lack of access to healthcare - just look at all the cancer patients who aren't being diagnosed in time, or treated as they would have been pre covid. And let's not forget about mental health. Our GP says that she is extremely worried about all the anxious and unhappy young children she is seeing these days. She says that they have never seen anything like this before, there is depression and anxiety on a huge scale amongst children since the lockdown.

Many of us live in small flats with for children sharing their bedroom, and with no access to outside space. We can't be made prisoners of our own homes indefinitely.[/quote]
Some people are just gagging for it.

Those people are the ones that should isolate. They are either people who are financially secure or expect the government to pay for their wages.

Mean while the ready of us need to get in with life. Let’s not forget the average age of Covid death is 82!

Hong Kong flue In 1968 killed between 1-4 million people world wide. People still went to work and school. The only difference is Twitter/facebook and 24 hour biased news coverage

Yes there will be another lockdown. The schools will close too (otherwise no point in having a lockdown as schools are driving up the community rates).

@Codexdivinchi exactly!

@PeonyandDahlia

Yes there will be another lockdown. The schools will close too (otherwise no point in having a lockdown as schools are driving up the community rates).

How do you know though ?

Germany has a national lockdown that seems to be more lenient than the U.K. out of lockdown. Imagine being able to have 10 people inside your home

@MarshaBradyo actually it’s not scareshite as you say it’s reality and I’m afraid I’m far more educated in what is happening than you are as evidenced by your posts.

Belgium has closed schools for two weeks and on return senior schools will be blended to allow more distancing in schools. Italy has in many areas done the same. As I posted earlier on this thread data has been sadly lacking re schools but the Florida data shows community transmission increased by 1/3 approx from face to face schooling.

[quote Oaktree55]@MarshaBradyo actually it’s not scareshite as you say it’s reality and I’m afraid I’m far more educated in what is happening than you are as evidenced by your posts.

Belgium has closed schools for two weeks and on return senior schools will be blended to allow more distancing in schools. Italy has in many areas done the same. As I posted earlier on this thread data has been sadly lacking re schools but the Florida data shows community transmission increased by 1/3 approx from face to face schooling.[/quote]
Of course you are. You keep following Twitter and I’ll listen to what has gone through consensus with reviews that warrant exposure on radio. Plus MPs who yes do reflect decisions not just indie bloody sage.

Who cares? You seem happy and I’ll never do Twitter full of people including scientists wanting to get noticed. I’ll do linked scientific studies etc (sadly graph thread has fewer these days). Fine

@PeonyandDahlia

Yes there will be another lockdown. The schools will close too (otherwise no point in having a lockdown as schools are driving up the community rates).

Ireland is getting cases down with many/most things locked down but schools still open.

If the only way to get cases falling here is to close schools, then so be it, we’ll have to. But I don’t think we should do it based on people thinking it’s not a ‘proper lockdown’ if we don’t.

Marsha you seem to have got it in for @Oaktree55. Where on earth have you got that the information was from Twitter? It's common knowledge about schools in Europe.
And as for the fact you are stating you are following the science and the MPs . Oh dear, I don't know where to begin? What science are you following that the rest of the scientific world aren't? What's with the 'indie bloody sage'. I know who I'd rather be listening to

Yes I think we are , but I think schools will stay open

@user1471530109

Marsha you seem to have got it in for *@Oaktree55*. Where on earth have you got that the information was from Twitter? It's common knowledge about schools in Europe. And as for the fact you are stating you are following the science and the MPs . Oh dear, I don't know where to begin? What science are you following that the rest of the scientific world aren't? What's with the 'indie bloody sage'. I know who I'd rather be listening to

Not at all. Scroll back oaktree quoted first as per usual. I usually skip the posts.

Anyway yes MPs and yes scientists, government and CMO as indie sage don’t actually make decisions. But good luck with following what they say it won’t help you much. Might give you some kind of comfort but won’t be what happens.

There is a good chance the virus is going to be here a couple of years.

It’s a horrible fact but vulnerable people are going to die. It’s what happened when there is a virus that kills vulnerable people.

However. Bills need to be paid. Horrible fact but true.

@user1471530109

‘Independent’ SAGE are a far-left political group which includes communist party members.

Even if they were independent, they are a single issue group. The government has to make decisions that take into account the fact that COVID is not the only issue in the world.

The lockdown fanatics for example do not care about the most disadvantaged families being plunged into even deeper deprivation or vulnerable DC having their life expectancy reduced by schools closing and ruining their life chances.

They can have one if they want one but compliance will be much lower than it was before.

I'm in tier 2 and everyone I know is still seeing family indoors.

They haven't got the resources to police it.

Belgium are going into lockdown until mid December

I'm in tier 2 and everyone I know is still seeing family indoors.

Well, it’s probably people with that attitude that will end up causing rates to rocket nationally and then measures such as school closures will be the only thing they have left at their disposal to stop the spread.

[quote Oaktree55]@MarshaBradyo France, Austria, Belgium.....they’ve all tried the regional approaches, the curfews etc. They don’t work well enough and now they’re in National Lockdown. Germany led by a scientist is doing the right thing in a national restriction but earlier as we should have done a month ago.

It’s no longer a debate it’s inevitable and you can listen to as many MP’s as you like on Radio 4 or whatever you do. Try listening to scientists. It’s not an opinion it’s a fact sooner or later and hopefully sooner the U.K. will be in National Lockdown. Go and read the chess board and the wheat story guys.[/quote]
Germany's "lockdown" still allows people to meet in groups of up to 10.

All of those countries still have their schools open.

They're not examples of it being "inevitable" that we'd lockdown and close schools like we did in the spring.

Well, it’s probably people with that attitude that will end up causing rates to rocket nationally and then measures such as school closures will be the only thing they have left at their disposal to stop the spread

Not arguing with you but the fact of the matter is it's happening and they don't have the resources to police it. Parties of 100 people yes, indoor family gatherings of 8 no.

Personally I think the elephant in the room here is schools. You can't effectively staunch the spread and still have schools open. Just isn't feasible.

That's not me advocating for schools closing BTW.

I definitely would rather be in lockdown now than over Christmas...

Germany's "lockdown" still allows people to meet in groups of up to 10.

That would be better. I think they need leeway on indoor family meetings in higher tier areas. People are doing it anyway

@NoSleepInTheHeat

If we locked down, it would have to be for months again which we just can’t afford.

As soon as you open up, cases rise. We just have to accept that as we cannot go on like this.

The only way to have schools open and not have cases rise is to have a decent test and trace system.

You can ban indoor mixing and close pubs all you want, but if schools are open cases will continue rising.

Test and trace needs to be improved as a matter of urgency.

Well it sounds like I need to do some of my own research. Is 'independant sage' the same group advising the government through the pandemic?

I still stand by the belief that we can't let this virus crash through the community the way it's starting to ramp up. I am horrified by some of the counter arguements to this. It should not be a decision as to whether to save lives from the virus or to pay bills. There is a balancing act. I don't believe the government are doing anywhere near enough. Why should I and 1000s stand in front of 1000s of students week in week out without ppe? Why aren't the clinically vulnerable being shielded and supported. Shame on anyone who thinks they shouldn't.

Are our NHS workers also backing your views? Have we forgotten about protecting them from being overwhelmed?