Are we heading for another national lockdown

[thebeachismyhappyplace2]

Do you think we are going in the same direction as France and Germany? And do you think schools will stay open if we do?

@user1471530109 do you have teenage children? Just sitting a teenager in front of a computer, (if you have one) and crack on while I go out to work doesn’t always work.

@Pootle40

The frustrating thing about schools not staying open potentially due a shortage of staff is the fact that most of those people will be sitting at home for 2 weeks with mild cold symptoms because of 'self isolation'.

Imagine a world where we hadn't heard about Coronavirus and this was any other winter. We wouldn't be batting an eyelid.

So you are suggesting that school staff (and only school staff?) go into work with Covid symptoms, to pass the infection to their classes (who may well be asymptomatic) so that they can go home to elderly or vulnerable relatives, or to their parent who works in a care home?

I think people who can (and want to) homeschool temporarily should be able to.

Then people who aren't in a position where they can or would choose to homeschool would have more space for their children at school and it would be safer. As a first off.

Giving people some degree of choice would be sensible for this government, that wants to please people, and therefore sways and U turns on many decisions.

As far as lock downs are concerned, SAGE might well have been right about a September circuit breaker, as getting numbers down at that point would have been more effective.

It is concerning that we may have a winter with very many tens of thousands of deaths and that hospitals may be overwhelmed.

It is a difficult balancing act and we need to keep as much as possible open while keeping infections down. But we might still end up with a late lockdown, if the number of ill and dying people starts to look too high for the nation to manage and stomach.

I appreciate, by the way, that every year school staff struggle into work with illnesses that they then pass on to the students.

However, the death rate from colds is lower than from Covid ... and the age range I teach all have the flu vaccination so hopefully don't take that back home with them. And even school staff don't tend to go into work with severe D+V.

The frustrating thing about schools not staying open potentially due a shortage of staff is the fact that most of those people will be sitting at home for 2 weeks with mild cold symptoms because of 'self isolation'

Do you think school staff should be in classrooms teaching children with Covid symptoms?

@herecomesthsun I think that's a good suggestion and surely makes more sense. Rather than a blanket closing of all schools, let the parents that want to homeschool their children do so without fines or losing their school place. I bet there are a lot of vulnerable parents who aren't comfortable with their children being in school but they have no choice.

Of course it wasn't a waste of time. That's such a daft thing to say. Just look at the way the cases/deaths dropped in that time, the problem was opening too much, too soon & pretending schools would be fine.

Plus obviously, our 'world beating' track & trace - being utterly fucking useless.

Yes, I think we need another proper lockdown including schools.

As was said at the beginning, until there's an effective vaccine this is going to need to be like a pressure cooker having the steam let out a bit at a time than closed tightly.

It really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. Including Boris.

They don't want to lose face & admit transmission in schools us a huge problem, but they're going to have to risk the NHS being overwhelmed and a huge death rate.

^This

Agree with every word.

@cantkeepawayforever

No I'm saying we just need to get on with it and was stating how ridiculous I think it is that for the majority of people this is a mild illness so the fact that we are all self isolating rather than going to work is crazy.

We should be shielding the vulnerable for who this poses a danger and not destroying everything else. So no, not specific to teachers

[quote DonnaDonna01]@user1471530109 do you have teenage children? Just sitting a teenager in front of a computer, (if you have one) and crack on while I go out to work doesn’t always work.[/quote]
No. I teach them. I know exactly what they are like. I'm not suggesting this is anything more than a short sharp snap.. have you not seen BBC news headlines this evening?

I am not collateral damage. I'm clinically vulnerable in more than one way. I've spent hours preparing for this (online live lessons) as have all teachers. Education matters. But I think my life and those of all vulnerable school staff matters too. Not to mention all those at home with children bringing it back.
Blended learning with a 2-3 week closure now. And when we go back, make it mandatory to wear PPE.

Then the economy can carry on. People won't lose jobs because their 13 year old is having to learn how to self motivate. All those not able to will be provided for in school just like last time. Vulnerable students and those that didn't cope last time? I think most schools can do this on a case by case basis.

I personally would want yr11 in too. But I think the evidence suggests this isn't a good idea .

@user1471530109 totally agree.

@Artesia

appeasing us4them selfish types who would rather tens of thousands of people die than little Johnny miss out on a month of school

What about if little Johnny lived in a 2 bed flat, with 3 or 4 siblings, and out of work, alcoholic parents? Or a single parent trying to work to feed her children? Or a parent who beats their children, and Johnny spends all day trying to keep the little ones quiet so they don’t upset them?

It doesn’t take a huge leap of imagination to recognise that many many children would not be able to access remote learning. Those children are already at a huge disadvantage, and closing the schools again will only make that worse. That’s why the schools need to stay open.

I had an extremely financially poor childhood, with very little space and not a lot of money for extras, and also nearly died of lung disease when I was 5, and was followed up for lung disease by a London teaching hospital for many years. I went to primary school wearing a face mask on paediatric advice, to protect my damaged lungs from the London smog.

I have no doubt that my mum would have kept me at home all through this. I had a lot of time off school through illness - and of course, it was just me that was off and the rest of the class was continuing as normal. It didn't disadvantage me at all, quite the opposite. I spent the time reading. We had no gadgets whatsoever and didn't have a television for many years (they couldn't afford one).

On the other hand, I did have very supportive loving parents, so that makes a big difference. But I think the importance of every child being dragged into school every single day of every single week is a bit overrated, given the current situation. From my own experience, letting kids have the equivalent text books at home might work fine, for some children.

I guess it doesn't apply to everyone, but I think we would have managed fine at home. My mum's main concern would have been worrying that I would catch this infection, she was very worried all through my childhood about my health.

If this virus is unmitigated the jobs will be lost anyway. The schools will be shut anyway. The mental health cost will be immense anyway.

It's a total failure of thinking about what the numbers and the practicalities really mean.

There is no point us even discussing it anyway. It's very clear that another lockdown is going to happen, and knowing this govt and this populace it will happen to late to have the most effect in the shortest time.

You cant count the UK as all the same anymore. BoJo knows nothing about what's happening in Scotland. I'm not prepared to be locked down due to high cases in England.

It's very clear that another lockdown is going to happen, and knowing this govt and this populace it will happen to late to have the most effect in the shortest time.

I agree with you. It’s pointless people shouting loudly that lockdown/schools closing can’t happen because they don’t want it to.

If pubs/restaurants/non-essential places are closed, people can’t meet and are just going to work/school/shop/home again and number of deaths reach 500/1000/higher a day, every day and don’t show any signs of falling, the government will be under huge amounts of pressure to do something else.

To be frank @Appuskidu, 500 deaths a day will not necessitate a lockdown. We cannot and should not get to prevent every single COVID death.

What we do have to do is make sure there are enough hospital beds and staff for every patient who needs treated. That will be the criteria used to determine whether further restrictions are required.

@Hesnotlocal

all pupils in school is the hill Johnson has chosen to die on.

@ilovesooty I think this is true, but teacher friends tell me that quite a few parents are already removing their children from school due to fear of them catching the virus at school (many of them families who are also looking after older/vulnerable relatives). Whatever the Government says about fines for children not in school this is the reality of what is happening. Added to that, most state schools where I live have whole year group bubbles so loads of childen at home isolating every time there is a case (which is becoming increasingly frequent). So we already don't have every child in school.

I suspect Boris will wait until the situation has become dire and either state schools are having to close completely for several weeks (due to cases across the school and/or staff absences) or huge numbers of parents are keeping their children at school. That way when he officially closes the schools many will already be essentially closed and he can claim to have wanted them open but it's everyone else's fault they can't be.

Much like the way he has imposed regional restrictions that are destined to fail and will then, inevitably, blame the normal people for not 'using their common sense' when a National Lockdown is needed.

I don't want a National Lockdown or for schools to close- but without proper safety measures in schools, workable contact tracing and easier and quicker testing I can see that it's inevitable. I suspect we'll limp on until Xmas, be given a 2 day relaxation of tier 2 and 3 rules to allow 2 households to mix for Xmas, then get a 'Look what you made me do' speech announcing National Lockdown. I've seldom wanted to be proved wrong more.

Spot on. That's how I see it too @Hesnotlocal .

@Inkpaperstars

If this virus is unmitigated the jobs will be lost anyway. The schools will be shut anyway. The mental health cost will be immense anyway.

It's a total failure of thinking about what the numbers and the practicalities really mean.

There is no point us even discussing it anyway. It's very clear that another lockdown is going to happen, and knowing this govt and this populace it will happen to late to have the most effect in the shortest time.

No they won’t because because the vast majority of cases experience none to flue like symptoms. Society can cope with individuals being off here and there but not a full society close down. Weird that people just can’t grasp this.

The hysteria on here is shocking.

Conversely people can shout on here that they want a national lockdown but if the public mood has shifted which it has since March then it won’t be a definite even if numbers are high. People will care more about livelihoods and education.

Europe are still keeping schools open with so called lockdowns.

Europe are still keeping schools open with so called lockdowns.

Some countries are, yes.

For now.

@ElizabethG81
@Codexdivinchi
@bookworm14

I agree with all of you.

We can't keep locking down, it is NOT an acceptable solution. Far from everyone qualifies for furlough pay, so we worry about our personal finances, and also about the bigger picture - who is going to pay for the unparalleled government borrowing that is funding all these covid measures? Who is going to pay for the NHS (and everything else) in the future?

We worry for everyone whose health is at risk from a lack of access to healthcare - just look at all the cancer patients who aren't being diagnosed in time, or treated as they would have been pre covid. And let's not forget about mental health. Our GP says that she is extremely worried about all the anxious and unhappy young children she is seeing these days. She says that they have never seen anything like this before, there is depression and anxiety on a huge scale amongst children since the lockdown.

Many of us live in small flats with for children sharing their bedroom, and with no access to outside space. We can't be made prisoners of our own homes indefinitely.

@user1471530109
I have seen the news tonight that’s why I doubt a 2-3 week lockdown will be enough. Children missed 8 weeks last lockdown and there’s nothing I’ve see so far that suggests we’ll need anything less this time. Plus when their not in school it doesn’t mean they’re sitting locked in their house, we had crowds of them wandering the streets together.

all pupils in school is the hill Johnson has chosen to die on

I doubt it. Many of us are hoping and praying he keeps them open.

@Appuskidu

Europe are still keeping schools open with so called lockdowns.

Some countries are, yes.

For now.

The importance is recognised tg. As much as people want it to not be.

@MarshaBradyo France, Austria, Belgium.....they’ve all tried the regional approaches, the curfews etc. They don’t work well enough and now they’re in National Lockdown. Germany led by a scientist is doing the right thing in a national restriction but earlier as we should have done a month ago.

It’s no longer a debate it’s inevitable and you can listen to as many MP’s as you like on Radio 4 or whatever you do. Try listening to scientists. It’s not an opinion it’s a fact sooner or later and hopefully sooner the U.K. will be in National Lockdown. Go and read the chess board and the wheat story guys.

Unfortunately, yes I think this will happen but the general compliance we saw in the spring just won't happen. People like me care more about our own mental health than they do about apparently saving our NHS. I'm in a tier 3 but met up with a friend today for a coffee and when lockdown happens we'll be seeing each other at her house.

Fuck the rules and 'the greater good'. They can't enforce them anyway so, you know, what's the point?