Stricter measures than ever before. Wales to restrict what supermarkets can sell.

[safariboot]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-54648194

We didn't have that in the "first wave". Despite some confusion, it was perfectly OK for essential shops to also sell non-essentials, and for customers to purchase them on the same visit as doing essential shopping. Now, in Wales, it's not OK, the stated reason being "fairness" to small businesses.

I think this could be a first sign of things to come. I fully expect measures at least as strict as, and possibly stricter than, what we saw in March. And I expect local to become regional to become national. Because anything less just isn't keeping Covid-19 under control.

That is not the justification, the justification is "fairness" ie if Tesco sell their value tin opener, it will be unfair on Lakeland who had to be closed so missed out on the chance of selling twenty quid one

Yet other chains are open and probably be able to buy one from them.

I wonder who came up with what constitutes an essential item.

You cannot buy a tin opener to get into a can of beans to feed yourself but you can buy alcohol.

When was alcohol an essential item.. ..or is it because if people have had a few drinks it makes them stop thinking too deeply about wtf is going on.

I was born in the 60s and I do know about online shopping :)

The point really is that I think it’s pathetic, and pointless, that politicians in 2020 are telling people that they are not allowed to buy certain things in shops.

The fairness argument is a joke. If there is any justification at all then it should be purely based on health matters.

@AldiAisleofCrap

It will help people using the supermarket as a day out and will reduce the time people spend in a supermarket. Alcohol isn’t essential though, that’s bizarre.

Yes it is. There will be tens of thousands of people minimum in Wales who are alcohol dependent, possibly more. Alcohol detox is dangerous and needs to be carefully managed. People who are used to a high amount of alcohol can have fits if they withdraw too quickly. The potential strain on the NHS from withdrawing access to alcohol purchases for 17 days is enormous. Thus, alcohol is essential.

@CrappleUmble then they can sell larger only. I looked after my friend pre detox she needed a few cans a day. It’s not essential to have the e tire stock of alcohol in sale. Alcoholics do not need baileys and pink gin!

Doesn't bother me Alec, i think theres more important things to worry about myself..

Alcoholics do not need baileys and pink gin!

I would imagine that the average Welsh person fucking needs Baileys and gin right now.

[quote AldiAisleofCrap]@CrappleUmble then they can sell larger only. I looked after my friend pre detox she needed a few cans a day. It’s not essential to have the e tire stock of alcohol in sale. Alcoholics do not need baileys and pink gin![/quote]
Having looked after one friend prior to detoxing does not qualify you to have an opinion on whether the entire alcohol dependent population of a country could be sufficiently managed by the existing lager supply chain for 17 days, either on health or logistical grounds.

Alcohol dependence is a medical issue that could easily be solved by having exemptions - imagine the money that could be saved from A&E (and even the nhs long term) there too, if most people didn't have access to alcohol.

Of course that idea is stupid and there would be riots. But the issue of alcohol dependance is not one that requires everyone has full access to the full range of pink gins and baileys.

Smoking cessation is shit cold turkey, but afaik it doesn't actually cause the kind of damage that stopping alcohol can. Why are fags therefore deemed essential?

Didn't I see evidence that THC helps fight covid?
In which case I presume along with all of the banning of certain sales, sale of cannabis will be unbanned?

(that could have been a random YouTube vid rather than a peer reviewed paper, I can't remember where I saw it)

[quote AldiAisleofCrap]@CrappleUmble then they can sell larger only. I looked after my friend pre detox she needed a few cans a day. It’s not essential to have the e tire stock of alcohol in sale. Alcoholics do not need baileys and pink gin![/quote]
Twmffat !!

Fundamentally it comes down to some people weirdly comfortable with the government micro-managing their perfectly harmless choices.

If I want to buy a duvet or a kettle or a pair of underpants and Tesco want to sell them to me, and I'm in the shop anyway buying other stuff, there is no credible reason why they shouldn't. Furthermore, me buying that item is not going to cause the virus to spread or put a small retailer out of business. What may put a small retailer out of business is being told they have to close for 17 days.

@BeyondsConstantBangingHeadache

Alcohol dependence is a medical issue that could easily be solved by having exemptions - imagine the money that could be saved from A&E (and even the nhs long term) there too, if most people didn't have access to alcohol.

Of course that idea is stupid and there would be riots. But the issue of alcohol dependance is not one that requires everyone has full access to the full range of pink gins and baileys.

Solved, possibly. Easily solved, not in the slightest. Not given the amount of notice.

There isn't currently a comprehensive registration system of the alcohol dependent, and not all of them will even be known as such to the NHS. You'd have to create a system from scratch, with barely any notice, and operating under all the constraints coronavirus has wrought. That system would require rules, administration, perhaps oversight. All to be cooked up within what, a few days? There will be relatively borderline cases. Get the parameters wrong enough, people will turn up in A and E having fits. Some of them will have covid.

Fundamentally, there is a reason the Welsh government didn't decide to try and attempt this at colossally short notice in the middle of a public health crisis. It's because it's a deeply impractical idea.

There'd be riots if you stopped people buying alcohol and cigarettes. That's why you can still buy it.

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

There'd be riots if you stopped people buying alcohol and cigarettes. That's why you can still buy it.

It worked in SA my friend who lives out there and volunteers with groups was worried about the fitting and other health issues when it was pulled but it did work in the main. One person she heard of had died. The upside was there were less beatings, fights, rapes, murders and thefts.

South Africa also has a more extensively developed illegal alcohol network than Wales can currently boast.

justasking111 my family live there, trust me they did not go short of fags and booze. There was a lot of tax revenue lost though.

The issue around alcohol abuse and violence is entirely separate to covid and should remain so.

@MaxNormal

Alcoholics do not need baileys and pink gin!

I would imagine that the average Welsh person fucking needs Baileys and gin right now.

You’d be spot on!

@CrappleUmble

South Africa also has a more extensively developed illegal alcohol network than Wales can currently boast.

We do have a lot of gin and whisky stills these days, legal of course.

Interesting piece in the guardian about the ban on booze and fags

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/18/south-africans-cheer-lifting-of-ban-on-selling-alcohol-and-cigarettes

The point here is that because SA already had an illegal alcohol network before the ban, they didn't have to deal with the health impact of cold turkeying all their dependent population at once. This mitigated one of the most significant downsides of the policy.

Pmsl at the statement that alcoholics don't need gin and Baileys. To misquote Yoda 'the moral judgement is strong in that one'. Let the riff raff allies make do with lager!

I am a bit bemused by the pink gin focus, I must admit. Would colourless be preferable?

@Jellykat

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4059125-pressure-on-frontline-nhs-staff?pg=1

but hey, lets focus on the fact we can't buy a new Dyson at the moment eh?

The way to suppress covid-19 is not with restrictions that:

Have little, or in this case no, effect in reducing the spread of the virus.

Are annoying to everyone, alienating the public. To the point people are willing to protest and take direct action, which itself creates new opportunities for the virus to spread.

Have a real and serious impact on the most vulnerable. The situation of a child taken into care with only the clothes on their back has been raised. Women escaping domestic violence will be in a similar situation. Online shopping is closed to those with poor computer skills or poor connectivity. Consider also rough sleepers, and victims of burglaries, house fires, and so on.

Furthermore, this ill-thought and unpopular restrictions will only impair future compliance with the measures that do matter.