If Covid is going nowhere what is the plan for schools?

[Marcellemouse]

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/covid-here-stay-even-develop-19095194
Just asked this on a different thread but no response.
Bearing in mind the above, at what point teachers be happy to teach a full class of DC?

@3littlewords

There has definitely been lots of calls for schools to be closed but they're usually from parents who have someone ECV in the family. If schools are closed they then have the justification to be able to keep their DC at home without threat of fines

And??? That’s because at the moment they are expected to dice with death every day by sending their children into school or lose their place meaning that their child continues to suffer even after this pandemic is over. It’s even worse for ECV teachers who have to go into work every day. One teacher on a thread I read had had a transplant for gods sake and all the posters were piling on saying just get on with or leave. Leave her career she is happy and good at and can return to most likely next year. Have we truly lost all empathy as a society? Is this really how we treat our most vulnerable? And we all stand by and watch it happen

It is criminal what this country is doing to these people. We go on about how terrible China is with their terrible human rights but, during this pandemic, we are right up there with them. Never have I been so ashamed to be British.

@Marcellemouse

This is the whole point of the thread. Teachers say school aren't safe, they'll probably be no vaccination for DC and most teachers until 2022, so what are we supposed to do long term considering this virus is highly unlikely to make the majority of DC ill. It's not to talk about how unsafe schools are again.

Your central premise is that there will be no vaccination until 2022. Can you please provide your evidence for this?

@sunflowers246 that's really interesting thank you. Our family must be outliers then as it was 10 days, 10 days and God knows here.

This article from the NYT suggests that the expected time of arrival of a vaccine for the general use of the American public (so not priority cases) is Feb - August of next year.

www.nytimes.com/2020/09/17/health/covid-vaccine-when-available.html

I've never seen anything saying it would probably be 2022.

In all probability, we need to get through this one winter. It is going to be shitty and it is going to hurt no matter how we do it (because our government has screwed up so badly already).

There is no reason to be looking at how we deal with a vaccine-less Covid 2 years from now.

One teacher on a thread I read had had a transplant for gods sake and all the posters were piling on saying just get on with or leave.

What's the alternative? Close ALL schools for many months/years so that a small minority of teachers can be protected?

I have every sympathy for such teachers, but unfortunately we need to make decisions on what's best for society overall.

What do you suggest?

How small a minority is it though?
In my department we have

• 2 pregnant (both high risk)
• 1 lupus
• 1 diabetes
• 1 asthma
• 4 over 50
• 1 morbidly obese

In addition, and overlapping somewhat with the personally vulnerable, we have 5 teachers who live with extremely vulnerable people.

People keep saying - you cannot split one group off from the rest of the population. Vulnerable people are part of society. I liked the quote that said trying to protect them by splitting them off was like protecting all your valuables by putting them in one room of a house and then setting fire to the rest of it.

It is bad enough that teachers are asked to go in to classes where children have tested positive, with a few of their closest contacts removed, with no masks and no protection.

Are you seriously now saying that you should leave their closest contacts in our classrooms and we should still go in and teach them too?

Is that what people are suggesting as the alternative to what we have now?

Teacher's on MN imply nightly that we'll be back to home learning before Christmas. Constantly posting about cases in schools, how they're all going to leave and then where will we be, etc. Makes you wonder what will happen as Covid isn't going to go away

MN is full of posts from unhappy teachers. I'm not making it up

These things aren't true.

There are 3 or 4 teachers who post an awful lot about their fears and worries surrounding conditions in schools. Presumably because they or a family member are vulnerable and/or because they have anxiety. And why shouldn't they? MS is an anonymous vent space. There aren't many of those. You have to keep up appearances for the sake of the children and parents in real life and make it seem like you're totally happy even if you're not. If you are somebody who is frightened, that's an added drain on your energy.

I don't think most teachers are especially worried and I don't think MN posts in general suggest otherwise.

But I don't know why there would be condemnation even if we were all scared, tbh. Lots of people have said they wouldn't consider going to a soft play, a restaurant, a pub, general shopping etc at the moment and lots of people agree that that is very sensible. But all those things are far less risky than schools are.

Yes, teaching is our job so of course we do it even if we wouldn't be happy to mix socially - but there's no shame in being worried about doing so. It's not a Covid safe environment and telling people not to worry can't make it one.

I'm worried.

I'm worried that there are hardly any children in my school, that it's getting worse, that nothing is being done to prevent it getting any worse, and people are pretending that everything is still fine and schools are still open.

I do acknowledge some schools are still open, by the way, and that's lovely for them. I don't think it's because they're doing anything particularly differently, I think it's about local rates and probability.

But something needs to be sorted out for the schools that ARE closed, or almost closed, because it will be months before we reach mythical herd immunity, even in schools, and that is months of the children I teach getting the worst education possible.

Teachers can carry on unil they drop, or leave.
Children are fine because you know, they don't catch it [hmmm] and certainly don't spread it, it's those awful young adult students
Schools won't close again, childcare init.
Look at the hassle last time, parents trying to juggle everything and kids not being educated, almost left feral whilst parents worked.
Maybe ss can care for them if schools close.
Because parents haven't the time, really.

@sunflowers246

One teacher on a thread I read had had a transplant for gods sake and all the posters were piling on saying just get on with or leave.

What's the alternative? Close ALL schools for many months/years so that a small minority of teachers can be protected?

I have every sympathy for such teachers, but unfortunately we need to make decisions on what's best for society overall.

What do you suggest?

I have lots and lots of suggestions. As does anyone with half a brain. How about not issuing fines to those families with ECV people in them if they wish to learn at home? How about having those children taught online by the ECV teachers? How about giving everyone in the UK a choice of learning at school or at home? If anyone isn’t engaging then they have to go to school. Sort out a decent plan for GCSEs and A Levels and announce it well in advance. Follow the science and have a circuit break to get cases down and give shitty track and trace another bash at keeping on top of things so that children who want to can learn in schools more safely. It’s not rocket science.

@Worriedmum999 I'm sorry I wasn't implying you were wrong to feel the way you do, just to point out that it wasn't actually teachers saying they wanted schools to close as other PP had suggested

3littlewords
There has definitely been lots of calls for schools to be closed but they're usually from parents who have someone ECV in the family. If schools are closed they then have the justification to be able to keep their DC at home without threat of fines

I think a lot of parents with ecv family members, are trying in an almost impossible situation to give their children an education, not get fined and keep their families as safe as they can. Often on threads about schools, when these concerns are raised, other posters seem to respond with

"Well what do you want then, all schools closed until a vaccine?/why should all children be denied an education because of a vulnerable minority?...and if it is regarding medically vulnerable children...but what about the children with working parents? (not everyone is as privileged as you) /de register then (My favourite)"

It has been incredibly difficult to take ds out of school, and really it shouldn't be, there should have been options from the start.

...and I have never wantedschools to close. I have done my utmost to keep ds in school, and I think the schools have done an amazing job under the most trying of circumstances

@HazeyJaneII I refer you to my above response to @worriedmum999 I was merely pointing out it wasn't teachers who have said close schools as other PP had suggested. I agree entirely ECV families have been shafted being forced to return to school and work

Teachers can carry on unil they drop, or leave.
Children are fine because you know, they don't catch it [hmmm] and certainly don't spread it, it's those awful young adult students
Schools won't close again, childcare init.
Look at the hassle last time, parents trying to juggle everything and kids not being educated, almost left feral whilst parents worked.
Maybe ss can care for them if schools close.
Because parents haven't the time, really.

See what I mean? Snarky comments about social service and parents not having the time.

Why the need to be so childish? How can you possibly have a serious discussion when people come out with this tripe?

There are 3 or 4 teachers who post an awful lot about their fears and worries surrounding conditions in schools. Presumably because they or a family member are vulnerable and/or because they have anxiety. And why shouldn't they?
These are the only posts about schools that I ever see. I accept it must be a no win situation if you or a family member are vulnerable and obviously they want the best for them and theirs.
However I also want the best for my DC which is being at school, despite periods of self isolating. I am expected to see things from their POV but if I try to express mine I am a callous murderous cow just because I don't want to go down the blended learning/home education for all year 9 and above route they suggest.

It's absolutely pathetic and goes a big part to play why people don't take the school threads seriously. Time and time again these utterly vile and ridiculous comments come up.

It's nothing to do with because the parents started it first, it's been going on since the schools closed.

@Nellodee

How small a minority is it though? In my department we have

• 2 pregnant (both high risk)
• 1 lupus
• 1 diabetes
• 1 asthma
• 4 over 50
• 1 morbidly obese

In addition, and overlapping somewhat with the personally vulnerable, we have 5 teachers who live with extremely vulnerable people.

People keep saying - you cannot split one group off from the rest of the population. Vulnerable people are part of society. I liked the quote that said trying to protect them by splitting them off was like protecting all your valuables by putting them in one room of a house and then setting fire to the rest of it.

The ten people you have listed aren’t ecv. Unfortunately those who aren’t ecv will just have to get on with it.

You do realise that loads of teachers, possibly even the majority, have dc in schools themselves? That's one of the reasons why the "But I only want what's best for my kids" line falls a little flat. Yes, we get it. Teachers want the best for your kids, and their own kids.

@Marcellemouse

There are 3 or 4 teachers who post an awful lot about their fears and worries surrounding conditions in schools. Presumably because they or a family member are vulnerable and/or because they have anxiety. And why shouldn't they? These are the only posts about schools that I ever see. I accept it must be a no win situation if you or a family member are vulnerable and obviously they want the best for them and theirs. However I also want the best for my DC which is being at school, despite periods of self isolating. I am expected to see things from their POV but if I try to express mine I am a callous murderous cow just because I don't want to go down the blended learning/home education for all year 9 and above route they suggest.

oh really? I see lots and lots of posts from lots of different teachers, most of whom are unhappy about the situation in schools because

• they care passionately about education
• they want schools to continue to function
• they see their colleagues becoming unwell
• they see children spending a lot of time sent home/ off school and the current situation isn't working

I don't see what I would call "anxiety".

If you want the best for your children's education, perhaps you could actually support the teachers trying to deliver it?

And I'm not a teacher, I'm a parent.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4057053-furlough-ending-clinically-extremely-viunerable
Unfortunately teachers aren't the only ones.

@Devlesko

Teachers can carry on unil they drop, or leave. Children are fine because you know, they don't catch it [hmmm] and certainly don't spread it, it's those awful young adult students Schools won't close again, childcare init. Look at the hassle last time, parents trying to juggle everything and kids not being educated, almost left feral whilst parents worked. Maybe ss can care for them if schools close. Because parents haven't the time, really.

Pathetic

@herecomesthsun
I appreciate you are also in a difficult situation and you absolutely should be able to home educate your DC without penalties. But for those of us who are not ecv and who saw their DC struggling with a long period of home learning that is not so desirable.