If Covid is going nowhere what is the plan for schools?

[Marcellemouse]

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/covid-here-stay-even-develop-19095194
Just asked this on a different thread but no response.
Bearing in mind the above, at what point teachers be happy to teach a full class of DC?

@herecomesthsun

Other countries have arranged their reopening of schools with much smaller class sizes & other mitigations, and are not having as many problems as us.

We could organise this (with blended schooling for those children who want it, that would help with numbers) and this would help kids stay back in a more consistent way.

How have they managed this? Are they only doing part time in school or did they already have smaller classes and bigger schools with extra space?

A bit of both I think. We've managed with a lot smaller budget than most countries for years and now it's pinching.

Barbie222 oh we've had cases. It's inevitable. I'm not naive. I know the risks.

I do wonder what the long term plan will be if there is a risk of Covid for many years to come.

@Autumnleavestime

Please do quote the posts where teachers are calling for closures and slagging off parents. I have been on many school threads and have yet to see evidence of this.

I'm not going to trawl back through old threads, and I'm not here to goad. I've seen comments such as parents can't be bothered to look after their children, parents don't care, parents just want to get rid of their dc. I'm not making it up, these are comments I have seen. Perhaps the people that have posted that sort of stuff don't even realise how cutting and offensive it is.

I am not slating teachers. I'm just saying it can wind people up when they're perhaps doing their own shitty jobs and see comments like that.

I wish I had the answer to make everything right for everyone. I think the op is just saying that even with a vaccine we may have to live with the risk of Covid for many, many years to come.

Ok well I am telling it how it was.

Teacher would post that they were concerned about risk of going back as safety measures not adequate.

A lot of posters would pile in (often the same ones) slagging off teachers, teachers didn't want to work, go and get another job, you're lazy, you've done no work all year, easy job, holidays all the time, workshy, unions want schools to stay closed blah blah, plus vile insults.

People would post again and again that they wanted school open safely and that schools would not remain open if they were full of covid.

No. One. Listened.

& I think a lot of teachers worked very hard over March- July teaching in school over Easter, teaching vulnerable kids in school and also teaching from home. Often with their own children there.

I think we had outsiders coming on here with their own agendas fanning the flames of argument.

We also have parents who desperately want kids back at school for a variety of understandable reasons.

And a lot of misinformation from the government, may they one day be held responsible for that.

What we need now is an intelligent plan with mitigations to go forward so kids get the best education the can while not spreading covid round the houses.

A bit of both I think. We've managed with a lot smaller budget than most countries for years and now it's pinching.

This is why it would be great if we were better prepared.

I saw on here someone mention a long term health plan for the future. It seemed like a great idea. A complete overhaul of our systems and lifestyles. Would take pressure off the NHS too.

Sadly it's a pipe dream.

We don't need everyone to have had the vaccine. We just need the vulnerable students, vulnerable parents of students and the teaching staff to have it. The teaching staff need to have the vaccine not because they are necessarily vulnerable (though many are), but because they need to be at school, so they can teach.

Obviously, frontline medical staff need the vaccine first out of everyone.

This thread is goady, firstly because it wildly exaggerates the prevalence of teachers on MN saying that schools will close soon due to Covid. And secondly because, like most of these types of threads, it also heavily implies that most teachers want schools to close and that classroom teachers have some kind of input into whether schools stay open or not. None of that is actually true though.

Most teachers want schools to remain open, but with improved safety measures. Or at the very least they want there to be transparency about the extent to which the current suggested safety measures are actually able to be applied in schools (i.e. not very much).

Most of these disingenuously-titled "Well what's going to happen then?" threads come across as thinly-veiled ways of saying "I don't care what safety measures are in place. Teachers need to stfu and teach my child." I say that as a teacher married to a teacher and with a dd in Year 11 btw.

Oh and the "Well let's see how you cope when teachers leave in their droves!" remarks from teachers have often been in response to posters saying "Well if you're not happy about going back as things are, you're clearly not fit to be a teacher, so you'd better quit". To which teachers quite rightly respond that parents should be careful what they wish for.

Most of these disingenuously-titled "Well what's going to happen then?" threads come across as thinly-veiled ways of saying "I don't care what safety measures are in place. Teachers need to stfu and teach my child." I say that as a teacher married to a teacher and with a dd in Year 11 btw.

Agree, and it's very obvious to many that this is what it all boils down to.

Interesting current thread about risk levels in schools, and the fact that the government has just quietly removed the bit in the general guidance which said that schools were not high risk working environments.

here

@lazylinguist

Interesting current thread about risk levels in schools, and the fact that the government has just quietly removed the bit in the general guidance which said that schools were not high risk working environments.

here

I've no idea why anyone needed telling schools are not safe.

They're not. They never will be. No matter what we try.

And TAs. Annoys me when everyone forgets school support staff, all the time.

what point teachers be happy to teach a full class of DC?

We already are teaching full classes.
I work in an infant school and teach almost 300 children a week, with no SDing , etc.

It may come as no surprise to some others teaching in schools right now that after less than one half term I have had 2 colds, 1 d&v bug and currently have COVID.

We are in a big city with a lot of secondary schools within a mile of each other. Our school has had very few positive cases

@Dorual

And TAs. Annoys me when everyone forgets school support staff, all the time.

Excellent point. I'm continually grateful for the LSA who works with my son

I’ve read a few threads on this. I’ve works in schools (HR) and I would say by far it’s the support staff who are higher risk health wise. Kitchen staff, dinner ladies, TAs, cleaners, student support. Often they are the ones on short term contracts, more likely to lose their jobs too.

MN is full of posts from unhappy teachers. I'm not making it up.

I don't even think they're unhappy.
They are, quite rightly, concerned.

This thread, and many others right now, show us that some posters really believe the government's version of what is happening in schools.

I've already read one thread this morning where a number of posters are insistent that in primary schools children are being kept apart that they're not touching one another, that teachers are ensuring there's no contact and no objects are being shared.

Teachers and school staff know this is nonsense. It simply isn't the case. It's not possible.

So,yes, some teachers on MN are showing their concern and trying to point out that schools are not COVID-secure, and that the government and the DfE are trying to make you believe they are. They aren't.

This is the whole point of the thread. Teachers say school aren't safe, they'll probably be no vaccination for DC and most teachers until 2022, so what are we supposed to do long term considering this virus is highly unlikely to make the majority of DC ill. It's not to talk about how unsafe schools are again.

@Aragog
Hope you get better soon

There has definitely been lots of calls for schools to be closed but they're usually from parents who have someone ECV in the family. If schools are closed they then have the justification to be able to keep their DC at home without threat of fines

@Marcellemouse well once there is a vaccine then I hope teaching unions will be pushing for teachers to be fairly high up the vaccination queue.

In the short term I would support the introduction of blended learning for secondaries to lower the numbers in class.

so what are we supposed to do long term considering this virus is highly unlikely to make the majority of DC ill.

I'm not really sure what you're asking. We (in the sense of you, other parents and teachers) can't do anything. What the government will do is keep schools open with occasional closures or sending home of 'bubbles', unless cases go so high amongst school staff that it is impractical to keep schools open or there is a full-on national outcry about it. I don't think either of those things will happen. Things will continue as they are imo.

We have to have schools properly open by then without all the isolation periods or so many kids will miss out on their education

In France the self isolation period for pupils is only one week. That seems sensible given the average incubation period is 4-5 days.

I'm not sure you should base any decision around the median incubation period though. What's the mode? What percentage of outliers are there?

95% credible interval: 5.6–7.7 days