If Covid is going nowhere what is the plan for schools?

[Marcellemouse]

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/covid-here-stay-even-develop-19095194
Just asked this on a different thread but no response.
Bearing in mind the above, at what point teachers be happy to teach a full class of DC?

@Marcellemouse

At no point have I said teachers are not teaching a full class. I said when will they be happy to.

Well that is up to the individual teacher. Most are doing it anyway as they don’t have a choice. Teacher don’t get to decide this shit you know.

30 DC probably is too many pre Covid I agree. My DC have always managed ok though. Helps them become more independent learners.

The problem is some posters who I mostly agree with, don't seem to want a teaching from the home option. There lies the rub really, because every one is safe, dc are being taught but some posters who are perhaps teachers have come up with every excuse as to why that's not possible..

It's most unfortunate and I cannot understand the stance at all.
Working from home had its ups and downs but we were safe.

We really should look at dc on a rota.
Half the classes. Apparently in Europe classes are much smaller.

If primary did half the class one day and half the other, proper sd could take place and the dc would get much more intense teaching... Due to smaller numbers.

@StanfordPines You stated a fact and surrounded it with lies
What lie????

My DC have always managed ok though

That’s good, but “managing ok” isn’t good enough, I don’t think.

Helps them become more independent learners

I disagree. Large classes inevitably end up being very teacher led.

@TheHouseonHauntedHill there's so many issues with home learning including the fact that MANY DC will not log on even if they have the means to.

"What are we supposed to think".

It is obvious that schools are will be kept open at all costs but Individual schools may well have to close for periods of time if staff absences rocket

The school I am at has stayed open with 30% absence due to having funding surplus for multiple supply a day for 2 weeks, staff giving up all planning and free time to cover colleagues spending breaks and lunch with kids. at the same time, the staff can still be annoyed that

Some parents send kids in with blatant and obvious covid symptoms
Any pretence of managing outbreaks has been abandoned. There are no mobile testing sites being set up or proactive testing even when you have 8 cases in a day and well over 2 a day averaged over a 2 week period never mind 2 a fortnight which was the definition of an outbreak.
Schools are blatantly not covid secure nor can outbreaks be explained by community rates when symptomatic cases among pupils are 5 times higher than the community and staff infection rates 20 times the community ones.
Lots of schools might have had lower incidents of infection if they are in low incidence areas but once the guidance/procedures is stress tested by infections in schools disruption will happen sooner or later. I'm not convinced that ignoring this or turning a blind eye is the best way to minimise this disruption which may get worse as cases rise.

It does feel right now that as a staff member in a school no one cares if you get covid. That's fine if you are young and healthy but really shit for colleagues with health conditions or older/ close to retirement.

I think it's normal to get worried when staff cases can go from 2 in the first 6 weeks then jump by 10 in a few days.

Maybe you should think that staff are doing everything they can to stay open but are very worried as current policies have a head in the sand aspect which is not sustainable. Monitoring and analysing what is going wrong when outbreaks happen has to be better long term than turning a blind eye to what is going on.

@Marcellemouse There are lots of studies which have categorically proven that a reduction in class size (I seem to remember something below 24 is supposed to be the sweet spot) contributes to students learning more. It's great that your kids can still cope in a larger class, not all do (especially SEND students or those from low-income households), although they would learn more if they were in a smaller class.

I don't even know what the point of this thread is anymore...

I don't even know what the point of this thread is anymore...

The goalposts keep moving, don't they?

covid may not be going anywhere but a vaccine or two,

Children won't be vaccinated against covid though neither will many parents as the majority will likely be too young to be eligible. Hopefully teachers should be able to have the vaccination if they want it but other than that a vaccine is of little to no help to cases in schools now

@Mogtheforgetfulmum thanks that's interesting.

@3littlewords
Children won't be vaccinated against covid though neither will many parents as the majority will likely be too young to be eligible. Hopefully teachers should be able to have the vaccination if they want it but other than that a vaccine is of little to no help to cases in schools now
Thank you. This is what I meant in the first place.

Children won't be vaccinated against covid though
This isn't true though
The Oxford vaccine trials include all age groups.
www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-05-22-oxford-covid-19-vaccine-begin-phase-iiiii-human-trials#

I am a TA I will be happy to teach a full class when I and the pupils are all wearing masks, when we can all keep 2m apart and when there can be ventilation in the classroom and adequate toilets and hand washing facilities.
Until then I will continue to be anxious about teaching a full class with no protection allowed at all. With children who are passing the virus on to staff asymptomatically and without the numbers being recorded or tracked.
I will continue to do my job with anxiety about my own health I have 4 children and a husband. I need to think about them and myself too as well as other people's children. I am at increased risk from COVID. I will continue to care for children at close quarters when they are hurt and upset. I will continue to hold their hands even though I know despite frequent hand washing they often put their fingers up their noses . I will continue to sit next to them to listen to them read, to mark their work to listen to them. I will continue to hug them if they are crying. I will continue to clear away their plates after lunch. I will continue to change them after toilet accidents. I will continue to do all manner of things that puts my health at risk for the sake of the children.
But I will continue to be anxious about teaching a classroom full of children. Is that ok with you OP?
I am a real life living and breathing person with a family life outside school who I am also putting at risk because of my unsafe working conditions.
I will continue to be upset of unkind people on MN suggesting the teachers were in anyway responsible for schools only being open to vulnerable and key worker children during lockdown when they had NOTHING to do with it. Teachers have down me everything and more the government have asked of them.
I realise there are lots of trolls on MN (foreign and homegrown) trying to stir unrest and also lots of government workers trying to stir things up for their own reasons but I hold my head up high along with other TAs and teachers and know we are going above board for the children despite just being cannon fodder to the government.
OP would you happily put your own health and that of your own family at risk for the sake of other's children? I do it but I am not happy about it. I am anxious about it as and for good reason.

I'm not happy to, because every time someone goes down with covid (which they are doing at an alarming rate) I'm expected to say I was 2m away at all times. I mean, that ignores the logistics of having to move around the packed building with them, getting them in and out of the room and handling their books, but my real issue is being gaslighted into pretending that Covid is not airborne. If it's in my classroom I'm vulnerable. I don't expect to die; I do expect it to be nasty. My main concern is for my family.

Your post is so naive @House i don't even know where to start!

To me, homelearning is so wholly ineffective it is pointless.

I say that as someone who works part time, has a v flexible and accommodating employer, we have a garden and multiple methods of technology to "teach" our kids, who are, on the whole, relatively motivated. Even with all of that- and I am well aware I am fortunate - home learning in those dark days in the spring was impossible. My kids are a million times happier, and actually learning stuff, now they're back at school.

If you don't think school is "safe" and your kids thrived at home then maybe you should should deregister?

[quote HazeyJaneII]Children won't be vaccinated against covid though
This isn't true though
The Oxford vaccine trials include all age groups.
www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-05-22-oxford-covid-19-vaccine-begin-phase-iiiii-human-trials#[/quote]
WHO or SAGE or whoever it is that decide on who should have vaccines have already said that the covid vaccine will not be added to the mandatory vaccines that our children have like the MMR and such. Of course they will trial all ages there will be ECV children that will need the vaccine

OP go work in a school if you think you’d be so much better at it than the professionals. You’re unbelievably tedious and unpleasant in your bizarre dislike for teachers.

“Children won't be vaccinated against covid though neither will many parents as the majority will likely be too young to be eligible. Hopefully teachers should be able to have the vaccination if they want it but other than that a vaccine is of little to no help to cases in schools now”

That’s why I added the bit about treatment and also testing. But regardless, if the vulnerable and elderly are protected I don’t think we need to vaccinate children, and I struggle with the ethics of doing so. You will never reduce the risk to zero, it just needs to be manageable. Obviously a vaccine is not useful right this minute, but the hysterical tone of the op in suggesting covid, and thus schools, will be like this forever isn’t necessary.

@VillageGreenTree Beautifully expressed. Shame on anyone who can’t see the truth and justice in what you are saying.

Marcell there are issues with all kinds of learning including disengaged pupils in the class disrupting everyone.

On line it can be easier because pupils don't really play up sat alone somewhere.

On line learning worked well for loads of places you just need the will to do it.

@Triangularbubble

“Children won't be vaccinated against covid though neither will many parents as the majority will likely be too young to be eligible. Hopefully teachers should be able to have the vaccination if they want it but other than that a vaccine is of little to no help to cases in schools now”

That’s why I added the bit about treatment and also testing. But regardless, if the vulnerable and elderly are protected I don’t think we need to vaccinate children, and I struggle with the ethics of doing so. You will never reduce the risk to zero, it just needs to be manageable. Obviously a vaccine is not useful right this minute, but the hysterical tone of the op in suggesting covid, and thus schools, will be like this forever isn’t necessary.

So do you think if the elderly, the vulnerable and the front line workers are all vaccinated, all this 2 week isolating and whole classes or school years sent home will stop? Id like to hope so but I'm not convinced. Will it become treated just the same as flu or norovirus on terms of our response to it?

Just stop, naivety comes with in experience, and it's an area I am extremely experienced in.

It's not ideal but we are in a crisis situation and student hoards need thining out for everyone's safety.

I think you quoted me earlier about the blended learning.

Others have answered why, IN A PANDEMIC, blended learning makes sense for everyone.

I have taught all my classes ensuring I open windows for everyone's safety when I get into my classrooms (I move about, children are static). Teachers just want to minimise risk for everyone in their classrooms which would then have an impact on minimising community transmission.

Lovely post, I guess this is where its at.
. Once again cannon fodder for political footballs.

Militant unions causing unnecessary chaos on one side... Utter inept tory stragety on the other.