Wales circuit breaker lockdown leaked, England next?

[rainytreeleaves]

news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-wales-to-enter-17-day-circuit-break-lockdown-leaked-letter-reveals-12107052

It seems like it's on the cards but 🤷‍♀️

Speaking as a teacher, risking my own health on a daily basis teaching large groups in small spaces with no PPE, thanks for that

A lot of the rules make no sense whatsoever. For example, as we are talking about Wales, the 5 mile rule on cycle rides during lockdown. Was there a single documented case of the virus spreading because someone rode (or ran) 6 miles from their home? No there wasn't. I would hope for some more critical and less emotional thinking from a teacher.

@NotAKaren

My concern is that if schools shut and numbers do not improve (and I don't think they will in such a short time) they will not open schools again in 2/3 weeks and it will end up being months of horrid soulless online home learning like before.

Yes this worries me too, once the schools are closed, that will be it. And that will apply to FE/6th form colleges and universities, too.

Was there a single documented case of the virus spreading because someone rode (or ran) 6 miles from their home? No there wasn't. I would hope for some more critical and less emotional thinking from a teacher

I have no idea about the "single documented case" and I shouldn't think you do either. I don't think test and trace was even close to being able to tell us that any more than it is now. I think the point of the rule was about not allowing people to travel too far from home, spreading their germs as they travelled. The old mantra "the virus doesn't move, it's the people who move it".
Forgive the "emotion". Perhaps if you were in schools on a daily basis you might empathise. There are precious few jobs where PPE is not only not used but actively advised against and in which hundreds of people come into contact with each other in poorly ventilated spaces day in day out. Every time some idiot decides to do their own thing, spreading their germs as they see fit, those germs come into schools and teachers don't have the luxury of protection in the same way that many others in other professions do.

@thetoughhaveleft

Was there a single documented case of the virus spreading because someone rode (or ran) 6 miles from their home? No there wasn't. I would hope for some more critical and less emotional thinking from a teacher

I have no idea about the "single documented case" and I shouldn't think you do either. I don't think test and trace was even close to being able to tell us that any more than it is now. I think the point of the rule was about not allowing people to travel too far from home, spreading their germs as they travelled. The old mantra "the virus doesn't move, it's the people who move it".
Forgive the "emotion". Perhaps if you were in schools on a daily basis you might empathise. There are precious few jobs where PPE is not only not used but actively advised against and in which hundreds of people come into contact with each other in poorly ventilated spaces day in day out. Every time some idiot decides to do their own thing, spreading their germs as they see fit, those germs come into schools and teachers don't have the luxury of protection in the same way that many others in other professions do.

I understand they had to have rules, but in Wales we weren't allowed to go outside a 5 mile radius until July and then 8 weeks later we weren't allowed to leave our counties. Despite that fact that many of these counties are incredibly rural and it is possible to walk miles without seeing anyone. These blanket rules are stupid and it's no wonder people don't follow them. I wasn't allowed to drive 10 miles from a county with no cases to climb a secluded mountain but in England people could stand shoulder to shoulder on a beach.

[quote Waxonwaxoff0]@NRJ688 yeah, if there's another lockdown with schools closed then I can't work and I will lose all my income, possibly my house too. Great that you had a lovely lockdown but the reality for many people is terrifying.[/quote]
It was a parody post!!! about some of the things I’ve read on here the last few months, the last thing I want is a lockdown!

@NRJ688 apologies! I didn't realise, I don't think I was the only one though

@Willyoujustbequiet

I said weeks ago the schools would close again and many posters scoffed .....

A few of us did. But then many people on mumsnet like to have their heads in the sand regarding schools and are just rude and abusive to anyone who suggests that full time school as it is is just not working. Bet they’re not quite so smug now.

We got a HT letter with changes to the National Tests dates for some groups and stating they are ready to use online teaching whenever needed. It may have something to do with the breaker. I suppose it will happen. Making it coincide with half term is convenient indeed.

Are police patrolling the two bridges and other roads into Wales from England?

Dad and I still debating whether DH and I should go and visit him next week.. per previous message, he lives alone in the middle of nowhere, near Lampeter. He only goes out to shops once a week, and although we're in England Tier 2, we've both recently been tested negative (part of survey) and DH is tested daily. We rent a car so just don't want to arrive at the bridge and then get turned back. We don't stop anywhere on the way to him.

@Worriedmum999 If your kids were at a school where no classes had yet been sent home and your child was in year 10 upwards would you want them to be having lessons in school or remote learning at home?

@FelineUK

Are police patrolling the two bridges and other roads into Wales from England?

Dad and I still debating whether DH and I should go and visit him next week.. per previous message, he lives alone in the middle of nowhere, near Lampeter. He only goes out to shops once a week, and although we're in England Tier 2, we've both recently been tested negative (part of survey) and DH is tested daily. We rent a car so just don't want to arrive at the bridge and then get turned back. We don't stop anywhere on the way to him.

They are stopping randomly at the bridge and throughout Wales as travel outside 15 counties is currently not allowed, and as of Friday you will not be able to drive outside a local radius again. There is a high likelihood you will be stopped and turned around, it happened often during the first lockdown, particular when travelling around the Beacons and Snowdonia. If you are providing caring responsibilities though you may be able to sort something out, maybe if your dad gets in touch with the council, as single person households are currently allowed to form support bubbles, but only within their areas.

I prepped for online learning back in week 2 of term. Would just need to copy 10 x maths worksheets each. Everything else copied, personalised, and in envelopes ready to go.

I'd prefer primary to stay in though.

I think the point of the rule was about not allowing people to travel too far from home, spreading their germs as they travelled. The old mantra "the virus doesn't move, it's the people who move it".
That horse bolted in the spring. It's pointless trying to close the stable door now. I might agree if it were an attempt at keeping the virus out of covid-free areas but there are precious few of those.

[quote myrtilles]@Worriedmum999 If your kids were at a school where no classes had yet been sent home and your child was in year 10 upwards would you want them to be having lessons in school or remote learning at home?[/quote]
At home....as having all the schools back with no mitigations is going ever so well isn’t it

At my school they are hoping it won't happen as it will create a lot more work for the teachers.

Yes schools being back is going well for millions of people. You can always home school your children but should not seek to deny others an education.

I will be fuming if schools here close. In a primary of 600 and a secondary of 1100 there have been 0 cases. In our local hospital there have been 2 deaths from covid this week. Here, at least, we don't need a lockdown.

I really don't think it matters whether the proposed circuit breaker was tagged to half term or not (apart, of course, from probably billions of pounds of lost tourist income 🙄). Its very unlikely that it would affect primary schools anyway as 1. They aren't responsible for spreading covid and 2. It would cost the government a fortune in furlough of parents.

Online teaching / partially online at secondaries/universities looks like a measure that may work alone without any measures on retail but with corresponding measures on hospitality and would be a cheaper option for the government. They won't take steps that have no benefit vs high costs so really can't see full scale primary closure even for 1 week and doing it for half term makes no sense at all.

@myrtilles

Yes schools being back is going well for millions of people. You can always home school your children but should not seek to deny others an education.

I will be homeschooling after half term thank you as I want to see how things go. I expect things will get even more dire pretty quickly and I don’t want to be out and about when that happens if we don’t need to be. Luckily my children attend a private school so we can not attend without any penalty or having to withdraw, however, it’s criminal that vulnerable people in the state sector, both parents and teachers, are being made to take the risk with no protection at all.

I think or hope a plan B is in place as infection rates rise and with some doing all they can to ensure this remains the situation.

My DD Yr 11 really struggled about 3 weeks into lockdown. Her school did not get its act together at all. DD is now stressed and playing catch up with rushed lessons, trying to study in her GCSE year in freezing cold classrooms with all the windows all flung wide open. They aren’t allowed to wear coats (in the north of England as it will disrupt their learning) and yet teachers come in with big coats, hats and gloves on. Some poor kids lower down the school have all lessons sat on high science stools all day every day.

She comes out of school in a bad mood absolutely freezing. She has Mocks in November. Her mental health is in tatters one teacher tells them something different to another, kids spread rumours, various kids talk about having tests and they see/hear things on social media, they are fearful of a lockdown (and not seeing their friends for months on end again as unlike many others she was brought up to do the right thing), yet other kids met up in the woods in big gangs, she is fearful of sitting her GCSE’s after doing consolidation work March to July and missing so much. Worried about CAG grades and what the future holds for them. We and our teens have done the right thing from lock down and throughout, yet always some so and so trying to bend the rules to suit themselves, pleading ignorance having a sleepover, party, meeting up in bigger groups than the guidance states, asking stupid questions on here like can 7 of us meet up, stating they are in a bubble with three households etc, taking photos hugging and boasting on facebook, going on holiday and lying about the number of households in the party etc.

What an absolute shit show this has turned into with news repeatedly and forever being leaked.

@Worriedmum999 I agree that everything possible should be done to protect teachers, other school staff, pupils and parents and I would like the government to spend more money on this rather than spending millions on moonshoot testing.

I wouldn't personally mind if there was some rotation between school and home learning to reduce class sizes but this would be problematic for many people. A lot of mental health issues were exacerbated by the lack of real school last term and many teenagers were not quietly sitting at home getting on with their work and could not cope with the lack of school routine. Some subjects are far more conducive to home learning than others. There are stories of disadvantaged children who have dropped out of school altogether and many people do not live in warm cosy homes with their own room, desk, computer etc. I know there are no easy answers and the risks are much higher in some areas than others which can affect one's judgement on the best way forward.

[quote myrtilles]@Worriedmum999 I agree that everything possible should be done to protect teachers, other school staff, pupils and parents and I would like the government to spend more money on this rather than spending millions on moonshoot testing.

I wouldn't personally mind if there was some rotation between school and home learning to reduce class sizes but this would be problematic for many people. A lot of mental health issues were exacerbated by the lack of real school last term and many teenagers were not quietly sitting at home getting on with their work and could not cope with the lack of school routine. Some subjects are far more conducive to home learning than others. There are stories of disadvantaged children who have dropped out of school altogether and many people do not live in warm cosy homes with their own room, desk, computer etc. I know there are no easy answers and the risks are much higher in some areas than others which can affect one's judgement on the best way forward.[/quote]
Yes there should be more protection. Children who cannot learn at home or are vulnerable should be offered a place in schools. Exam years should be prioritised as should Year 7|early years as they are new to that part of their school journey. Children who have vulnerable families or anyone who feels uncomfortable should be able to be taught at home by vulnerable or scared teachers. Schools should be given money to get excellent online learning up and running as well as for smaller, distanced classes. People calling for schools to be open as they are, come what may have probably not been affected much by cases in schools yet. But they will be. The whole system will crumble, children will be disadvantaged yet again and more people will die.

And I will find loopholes.

Oh, jolly good. And what loopholes will you find should you need urgent hospital attention in the coming months, I wonder?

Dr Ami Jones, an anaesthetist and intensive care doctor in south Wales, warned in a tweet on Saturday that while hospitals in Liverpool “are totally overwhelmed by Covid patients we are not far away from this in Wales” and that some of those affected were “fit and well young patients [in their] 30s, 40s and 50s]”.

Dr Dave Jones, another Welsh anaesthetist, tweeted that, unlike the first peak of the pandemic, the NHS was “going into wave two with trolleys in corridors and ambulances outside [hospitals]”. A third anaesthetist, Dr Tamas Szakmany used the same platform to warn that hospitals could not give patients in critical care the same standard of care as usual, including to those on a ventilator because of Covid, while also continuing to provide normal, non-Covid care, because they have too few staff.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/18/revealed-some-manchester-area-hospitals-already-full

I doubt there would be all the fuss and money thrown at Manchester if they intended to lock the whole country down by the end of the week, what would be the point, though they may decide to do it for tier three.

FelineUK,
How old is your father? Could he- reasonably- be classed as vulnerable?
How's his mental health? It can be argued that it might not be too good right now.
Avoiding injury or harm is reasonable excuse to avoid lockdown.
Be straight if you like: ring the council where your dad is living tell them he is old (if he is) and you are concerned for his welfare.
They'll try to fob you off but stand firm.
Then if ( BIG. if) the police stop you ask where you're going tell them you are going to see vulnerable person.
We may be living in a dictatorship at the moment but a council official or policeman would rather not be blamed for someone's elderly relative becoming sick. And they're only human, too.
You're still taking a chance but I'd go for it provided I had my ducks in a row first.