I'm calling it - people aren't complying.

[TheFormattingIsWrong]

Local lockdowns aren't working. The North has proven that. Why would it be different in London or anywhere else for that matter? People have stopped complying. They did it in March when it was implied by Bojo that it was going to be a 3 month thing, but as it has become abundantly clear that that this is going to be a way of living until there is a vaccine, and there is no guarantee on a vaccine, people have just said sod it then, I'm not living that way.

I won't be complying. I'll be continuing to see my mum and my sisters. I'd obey it to the letter if it was a 2 week circuit breaker, but as it's clear we're going to have to live this way until at least next Spring, no, I won't be complying.

And for those who say "oh well that's why cases are going up" - until this government kicks itself up the arse and gets a functioning test and trace system in place, they always would anyway. Either it's lockdown or it's cases rising. And most of us aren't prepared to live without seeing family or friends (yes, indoors!) until Spring.

And btw, both France and Spain have managed to keep their theatres open.

@TheFormattingIsWrong

So true, most people covid is a mild illness. I'm middle aged, overweight and unfit yet it manifested its self as a 4 hour fever (low grade) followed by loss of taste and smell. Ebola is deadly to half or so who catch it, totally different

@everybodysang

this is a very depressing thread. You all know you're being selfish and you just don't care. Why is it harder for you than everyone else?

It is harder for some people than others. It’s relatively easy for me (I have PND but a secure job, a house with a garden and a loving husband) and I’m sure this plays a part in why I comply. Life is much harder for others.

The majority of people in this country are fundamentally selfish.

@AlexaShutUp - people are thinking for themselves. They're questioning this inept government and it's inept measurements.

That's a good thing. Please don't berate people for having the intelligence and courage to question and make their own minds up. Refusing to comply is not always a bad thing.

@everybodysang

this is a very depressing thread. You all know you're being selfish and you just don't care. Why is it harder for you than everyone else?

Asked and answered. Because for some people it is harder. Trying to explain to someone who has had to start using a foodbank these past months (because we all know that foodbank usage has rocketed, I hope) that they need to do something or else someone they have never met might have to suffer a minor inconvenience really isn't going to work that well.

@TheFormattingIsWrong

OK so let's say we have another hardcore national lockdown and cases drop right down again.

What happens when we open back up?

Cases will obviously start increasing again, especially if people don't follow the guidance like far too many didn't in July and August (i.e. not social distancing in pubs!).

It was said right at the start that there'd be a series of restrictions implemented and then relaxed as time passed. It's not a surprise to anyone.

The whole plan was to spread the infections over a long time period so that we didn't get huge numbers crippling the country/economy/NHS in one go. We already had schools and hospital wards closing in March before lockdown due to staff shortages. The NHS can't function if too many staff are off sick at the same time or the wards are full. Don't you remember all the "flattening the curve" messages that were all over the media in March and April? A succession of smaller peaks is a lot better than one huge peak and will keep the country/economy/NHS functioning rather than a huge peak which cripples everything.

I just can't understand why people aren't more furious about test and trace. If we had a decent system in place none of this would be a problem. Families could meet. Theatres could open. Pubs could open. Children could be at school. Christmas could happen.

Why aren't people holding the government to account over the fact it's had 8 months to get something in place and hasn't done it?

And btw, both France and Spain have managed to keep their theatres open.

Why are our theatres shut when hoards of people can sit and chat in a pub all night?

Theatres would be a perfect place to socially distance. All facing forward (like in schools now supposedly). No mixing of households.

Why are they shut?

It was said right at the start that there'd be a series of restrictions implemented and then relaxed as time passed. It's not a surprise to anyone.

Actually it wasn't, what Johnson actually said at the start was we'd get this thing under control in 12 weeks.

I knew that wasn't going to be the case at the time. Plenty of others didn't.

Please don't berate people for having the intelligence and courage to question and make their own minds up. Refusing to comply is not always a bad thing.

To some extent, I agree. Blind compliance is never desirable. However, I'm yet to see an argument for non-compliance which shows any intelligence or courage. It's generally a case of selfishness and disregard for other people.

Why are they shut?

Because this government has absolutely no respect for the arts and nor do large swathes of the general public.

I prefer tier two to national lockdowns.

I really don’t want sodding circuit breakers every month or so.

@TheFormattingIsWrong I think most people agree that Test, track and trace (or whatever it’s even called) is not working effectively and if it was resolved would be a fantastic way to avoid further lockdowns, but as it’s not, should we not be doing even more to prevent infection?! Seems a bit throwing the baby out with the bath water to me.....

I will comply but I disagree with it.

I agree I think the main failure and what needs to be sorted is the test and trace system. If we had a robust system with better access, mass testing, near instant results then that would have more of an effect.

The economy is fucked, for generations.

@TheFormattingIsWrong

And BTW I always wear a mask and keep the 2m distance from anyone I don't know. Rarely go into shops. I WFH.

This is me and I'm not complying either - but also not flaunting myself about, I'll see may parents in my home and I'll meet friends outdoors , I'm also going to travel to Scotland in my family bubble for half term and not mix anywhere other than a pub for lunch in a socially distant way.

This was predicted all along.

The longer restrictions remain in place, the more additional 'rules' are added on, taken away then added on a week later, the more people will think 'Fuck it!' and no longer pay heed. And obviously, resentment among those directly affected - such as those working in hospitality - is going to grow, and it's hard to blame them for feeling this way.

"All in this together" is fine as far as it goes, but there is a limit to what you can expect people can do to 'protect' people they have never met. This was known all along. I think most people will reluctantly go along with a few more months of this, but I doubt people will want another spring and summer like the ones we've just been through.

I think most people agree that Test, track and trace (or whatever it’s even called) is not working effectively and if it was resolved would be a fantastic way to avoid further lockdowns, but as it’s not, should we not be doing even more to prevent infection?!

How's that going up north?

FWIW, OP, I am furious about the failure of test & trace, and about the many other failings of this government. I just don't think that their failures give the rest of us license to behave irresponsibly as well.

Because this government has absolutely no respect for the arts and nor do large swathes of the general public.

And large swathes of the general public have no respect for anyone but themselves it seems

@everybodysang that’s a bit unfair. Yes, it’s tough on everyone, but that doesn’t mean it’s equally tough on everyone. These rules are going to make life extremely hard for some people who are absolutely reliant on family members for support.

I’m expecting twins shortly (conceived before we knew about all this, and no control over the twin aspect) and I have to have a c section. That means being unable to drive, and potentially a longer stay in hospital than I’d have hoped for. If my area moves to tier 2, do you really think I should tell my mum that she can’t take my daughter to school? That she can’t look after my DD so that my DH can be with me for my section and meet his new children? It’s not fair to think that all situations are directly comparable.

I just can't understand why people aren't more furious about test and trace.

1. Who says they aren't ?
2. Even if they are, what exactly is there to be done ? We are stuck with this government for another 4 and a bit years (assuming we ever have another election). So how do you hold them to account ? Especially when all the media outlets appear to be in thrall to them.

Believe you me, I'm incandescent with rage. But what can I do ? Old and invisible as I am.

@TheFormattingIsWrong

I just can't understand why people aren't more furious about test and trace. If we had a decent system in place none of this would be a problem. Families could meet. Theatres could open. Pubs could open. Children could be at school. Christmas could happen.

Why aren't people holding the government to account over the fact it's had 8 months to get something in place and hasn't done it?

Test and trace doesn't stop you getting it, so lots of people still wouldn't go to theatres and pubs! It just reduces the number of people getting it because, in theory, it alerts those who have it who should then isolate or those in close contact to isolate and have a test. If you're vulnerable, you could still find yourself inches from someone in a theatre for 3 hours who caught it the day before and didn't know they had it! Or even worse, someone who's been told they've got it or been in close contact and doesn't give a stuff about others because they feel fine!

But let's not forget, there are people who've refused to provide contact details, refuse to answer their phone to withheld numbers and refuse to isolate even when they've been told they've got it!

Test and trace is helpful, but to think it would enable theatres and pubs to open as normal is very naive.

@AlexaShutUp - posters on here might not say it. Some do. Many don't.

A massive reason for non compliance is mental health and well being. All of which trumps Covid. We can die of anything at any time. It is important to live and enjoy life whilst you have it.

Resilience comes from those around you. Connections, relationships, love and friendship. Without any of this we are not truly living.

Can't all you covid deniers see the irony in saying

"I'm not complying with government restrictions....I blame the government for all this mess"

"All in this together" is fine as far as it goes,

If you mean by that it's an utter crock of shit, then it's world beating.