I'm calling it - people aren't complying.

[TheFormattingIsWrong]

Local lockdowns aren't working. The North has proven that. Why would it be different in London or anywhere else for that matter? People have stopped complying. They did it in March when it was implied by Bojo that it was going to be a 3 month thing, but as it has become abundantly clear that that this is going to be a way of living until there is a vaccine, and there is no guarantee on a vaccine, people have just said sod it then, I'm not living that way.

I won't be complying. I'll be continuing to see my mum and my sisters. I'd obey it to the letter if it was a 2 week circuit breaker, but as it's clear we're going to have to live this way until at least next Spring, no, I won't be complying.

And for those who say "oh well that's why cases are going up" - until this government kicks itself up the arse and gets a functioning test and trace system in place, they always would anyway. Either it's lockdown or it's cases rising. And most of us aren't prepared to live without seeing family or friends (yes, indoors!) until Spring.

Where I live, hardly anyone is following the no household mixing rules. Carrying on as normal

So if a large proportion of people have this attitude, will they be prepared to have no health service, no social services, no police etc.

That's the reality for me at the moment! I was waiting for an appointment for an extremely painful and potentially very dangerous gynaecological issue. I got one in April. It was cancelled. It was rescheduled for July. That one was cancelled too. I'm still waiting for my new one.

My husband has crohn's and is meant to have six monthly check ups and a scan and bloods. He had a phone appointment. No scan. No bloods.

On a personal level the idea of not being allowed to go to a socially distancing gym with excellent mitigation measures in place would be pretty galling given it's apparently perfectly safe for me to teach over 350 kids from 4 different year groups each week effectively making my bubble the whole school plus every teenagers family, their families colleagues, everyone they share public transport with etc without any meaningful test, track and trace going on.

Gyms don't have to close in tier 3, For some reason they just added that on for Liverpool.

I'm not surprised all the Liverpool gyms are raging!!

If - for whatever reason - your life feels like shit, then it is going to be spectacularly hard to be motivated by tales of how shit it might make a few people who you've never met.

Exactly - that's what I've been saying all along. You can shriek about me being selfish all you like that I maintain that, for the majority of people, altruism towards a bunch of other people you don't know is only going to stretch so far.

It's heartening to see so many people talking about the importance of an effective test and trace system. That seems to have changed just in the last couple of weeks.

I think there would be much more willingness to comply with a tougher, short circuit breaker if this came with the promise that the time gained would be used to put decent T&T in place (i.e. give it to local authorities to run and provide proper support for people to isolate).

As it is, I don't blame anyone for not wanting to comply with this ineffective hodgepodge of rules. It's just more slow torture with no end or exit plan in sight.

I don't know whether I'll 100% comply yet, we'll be having a big family zoom meeting at the weekend. We'll go with the wishes of the most vulnerable and the most cautious in the family.

We actually stopped complying with the no mixing of households rule in the 2nd week of lockdown when mum died of covid. The need to come together in grief was something overlooked by government (and others), who maintained that we should remain apart in order to protect others. No-one cared about how we felt though, the consensus was that although what happened to us, and thousands of other families was awful, we should still do our "civic duty". We maintained SD from others but, as a family, we made our own decision collectively to see each other.

@SqidgeBum

Is there anyone here who thinks restrictions on not meeting other households wont actually bring down cases? Do you think its possible that lockdowns in other places havent worked because transmissions arent primarily coming from households, but from workplaces, schools, universities etc?

What are people going to do if in 2 or 3 weeks time when not seeing their family has made no difference to the case numbers? Are we going to keep saying 'people arent complying' and sit at home, or will we face the idea that maybe its being spread in other ways and sitting at home isnt actually helping much?

Exactly. But to answer your question, I think they’ll keep saying people aren’t complying and try to blame a public that have for the most part sacrificed a huge amount already.

And for those of you saying those of us against constant lockdowns should be refused hospital treatment, do you also apply that to smokers, alcoholics and the obese?

Their personal decisions largely affect only themselves. You can’t catch obesity.

Your idiotic decisions will deprive others of treatment.

People have had enough. The mental health of the nation is going to become more of a problem than covid if this goes on.

I will protect my 90 year old gran
I will see my mum,
My boyfriend lives/works in Wales and I am in north east England, he is pretty anal when it comes to the rules, it might end up break us, we have already had a wobble.

If my kids can mix at school and I can go to work, because my boss wants me back at work even though I can 💯 do my job at home, (even thinking it’s ok for me to do home visits!) if I can go shopping then I can decide to see my mum.

It’s a pile of shite now and I am fed up of it!

I am not complying.

We got so little sympathy from the lockdown fans at the economic shafting we've had that I feel disinclined to worry about the world at large now.

The problem has always been that when you get united societies, they start doing stupid things like expecting something in return for their taxes, and that their representatives are actually accountable. Not only that, they're willing to vote to get it.

Obviously we can't have such nonsense in a world beating country. So here we all are. Stuck with - and at - each other.

I may need a caffeine shot.

You can shriek about me being selfish all you like that I maintain that, for the majority of people, altruism towards a bunch of other people you don't know is only going to stretch so far.

Yeah, you're right. That should be obvious from the series of Tory governments that we have elected. The majority of people in this country are fundamentally selfish.

It's so depressing, but we should not be surprised.

I'm all for sticking to the rules if they work but these indefinite local lockdowns are NOT working!

Maybe they're NOT working because people like the op are NOT complying

I will comply ,I may not get ill ,but I don’t want to risk passing it to a family member who might .
I have friends who are adults who are using the sunflower lanyard to avoid having to wear face masks ..it’s wrong

What a depressing thread - OP and others who are not complying really piss me off. It's not about you, it's about everyone. So so selfish.

Fucks me off massively.

Yeah, you're right. That should be obvious from the series of Tory governments that we have elected. The majority of people in this country are fundamentally selfish.

I did not vote Tory, never have, and never will.

Plenty of us on the left believe that the constant cycle of locking down will do nothing but harm to society and that the time should have been spent developing a proper test and trace system. That it hasn't is a national disgrace, and that is where people's anger ought to be directed.

@TheFormattingIsWrong

If - for whatever reason - your life feels like shit, then it is going to be spectacularly hard to be motivated by tales of how shit it might make a few people who you've never met.

Exactly - that's what I've been saying all along. You can shriek about me being selfish all you like that I maintain that, for the majority of people, altruism towards a bunch of other people you don't know is only going to stretch so far.

This is very true. There are any number of ways we could curtail our lifestyles for the benefit of those we don’t know. Most people in this country lead a very unethical lifestyle in terms of where we buy our things, our carbon footprints and we don’t stop to think of those who are adversely affected. All of a sudden covid comes along and sacrificing the most basic of freedoms to help others is suddenly a must.

I’m a rule complier not because of protecting any individual as such, but to protect society as a whole in the event the health service becomes overwhelmed, or large swathes of the workforce are off sick at any one time etc. I can follow the rules and give Covid to someone via a permitted interaction, or not follow the rules and pass it to no one. The rules work on a population level not an individual one.

It's not about you, it's about everyone

What about women forced to go through labour alone? What about families of seven living in one bedroom flats with no garden space? What about people with painful but not life threatening medical conditions who are being denied appointments and treatment? What about children missing out on weeks and weeks of schooling?

And for the love of god, please do not say "but if people obeyed the rules those things wouldn't have to happen". Yes they fucking would. Because as long as any contact is permitted between people, cases will rise.

We. Need. Proper. Test. And. Trace.

see you're arguing for stronger measures on other threads @Flaxmeadow. Do you have a very secure job / the sort of circumstances that will shield you and your family from the consequences of a lockdown

No I do not. I had a job in retail until recently, not sure if I can ever go back to it the way things are. Totally on my arse ATM and will struggle to even have my heating on soon.

I'm in a 2 tier area but want local govt to agree with central govt to move us into tier 3, because its rising rapidly here. Local govt are causing this uncertainty

But, judging by the sheer weight of covid denier comments i see now on social media, as on here, about 50% or 60% of comments are covid deniers, the frightening reality is that we all need to prepare for a collapse in services. So many now saying they won't comply, and so services will collapse soon. Maybe in just a matter of weeks now

this is a very depressing thread. You all know you're being selfish and you just don't care. Why is it harder for you than everyone else?

OK so let's say we have another hardcore national lockdown and cases drop right down again.

What happens when we open back up?

I did not vote Tory, never have, and never will.

Maybe not, but it's the same "I'm alright, Jack" thinking which motivates your behaviour now and the way in which many people vote.

Those aren't the values that I was brought up with, but I accept that I'm in a minority thinking that we should work for the collective good.

You all know you're being selfish and you just don't care

Do you think it's selfish of people to argue for lockdown in spite of the mentally ill, pregnant women going through labour alone, elderly people in care homes with no visitors, children in high rise flats with no garden? Why is that not selfish?

Lockdown and restrictions are a type of contract between us (the people) and Govt.
We kept our side of the bargain but it has become increasingly obvious rules don't apply equally and the Govt has failed to introduce proper Test, Track and Trace both for the general population and those in healthcare, from the NHS, to Care homes and social care agency staff.

This Govt gave us Eat to help out, sent Uni students back to campus, told us all to go to 'office and then promptly did a u turn on all of these.

Its an absolutely joke now, we can all see this, so compliance is very low, we no longer trust them.

Maybe not, but it's the same "I'm alright, Jack" thinking which motivates your behaviour now and the way in which many people vote.

Hardly, because I'm not alright at all. Most of the reason I need to see my sisters and my mum is because the industry they're in has been financially decimated with no prospect of health or recovery, little to no sympathy from the general public, and both are severely struggling with their mental health. DH and I live with DS in a 2 bedroom flat with no garden. Thank god we're lucky enough to have jobs.

So no, I'm not "alright Jack".