I'm calling it - people aren't complying.

[TheFormattingIsWrong]

Local lockdowns aren't working. The North has proven that. Why would it be different in London or anywhere else for that matter? People have stopped complying. They did it in March when it was implied by Bojo that it was going to be a 3 month thing, but as it has become abundantly clear that that this is going to be a way of living until there is a vaccine, and there is no guarantee on a vaccine, people have just said sod it then, I'm not living that way.

I won't be complying. I'll be continuing to see my mum and my sisters. I'd obey it to the letter if it was a 2 week circuit breaker, but as it's clear we're going to have to live this way until at least next Spring, no, I won't be complying.

And for those who say "oh well that's why cases are going up" - until this government kicks itself up the arse and gets a functioning test and trace system in place, they always would anyway. Either it's lockdown or it's cases rising. And most of us aren't prepared to live without seeing family or friends (yes, indoors!) until Spring.

We won’t be returning to normal even if everyone complied.

So what you're actually saying is fuck it, you're going to risk spreading it to your family, because you're not going to let the government tell you you can't.

What she actually seems to be saying is that she's willing to take a measured risk for the sake of the mental health of herself and her family. Mental illness can kill directly but can also physically manifest and result in stress, heart disease, high BP, fatigue, poor immunity, lethargy, stroke, cancer etc.

It would be interesting to poll 18 year olds and see what might entice them into doing nursing degrees and what might put them off.

Chris Green, MP:

“They are both in tier three and the tiering system is designed to simplify the rules so everyone will find them easier to follow over the coming years.”

Not months. Years.

What she actually seems to be saying is that she's willing to take a measured risk for the sake of the mental health of herself and her family. Mental illness can kill directly but can also physically manifest and result in stress, heart disease, high BP, fatigue, poor immunity, lethargy, stroke, cancer etc.

Yep but people don't want to hear that. They'd rather write me off as a rave having anti mask covid denier. That's fine.

@Funkypolar

We won’t be returning to normal even if everyone complied.

Well not with a defeatist attitude like that!

@gypsywater

It would be interesting to poll 18 year olds and see what might entice them into doing nursing degrees and what might put them off.

There is also a huge untrained but highly capable available workforce currently working in less skilled roles, due to lack of education prospects probably. They should be looked at. I'm sure a lot of them would love to be nurses.

We really should be looking at exceptional incentives to recruit medical staff at this stage. It's the only solution.

I think that many people are breaking the rules a little bit because don't make sense in individual circumstances. For example, I can't blame a friend son celebrating his 18th birthday with a few the people who was sitting next to every day last week in lessons. He's braking the rules but not actually increasing the risk. However, there are a few people who are just being reckless. With regard to seeing parents, it depends on their age perhaps. Mine are around 80 and there is no way I'm going to visit them indoors while infections are as high as they are at the moment.

The World Bank COVID-19 Strategic Preparedness and Response Program (SPRP) also has a predicted end date of March 2025 so it’s not like anyone thinks this will be over soon.

documents1.worldbank.org/curated/en/993371585947965984/pdf/World-COVID-19-Strategic-Preparedness-and-Response-Project.pdf

@Lowkee

We really should be looking at exceptional incentives to recruit medical staff at this stage. It's the only solution.

It will be too late for this pandemic.

Well we should be investing the money now for the future.

It's never too late. Healthcare assistants could easily be trained up to be general nurses in a year. General nurses could be trained upwards in less than a year. It's doable if the will is there.

@Lowkee

It's never too late. Healthcare assistants could easily be trained up to be general nurses in a year. General nurses could be trained upwards in less than a year. It's doable if the will is there.

A year will be too late for this pandemic.

I was talking to a paramedic recently and there are different levels of those too. She's one of the more qualified ones, where she is trained to cannulate and intubate for e.g. I think she said that took an extra 6 months study on top of her existing qualifications. If we had started this drive back in March, we'd have people emerging qualified from now on.

A year will be too late for this pandemic. Well just accept dancing in and out of lockdown to the government's tune for years to come then and blame anyone bar yourself or the bloody short-sighted government for the fiasco.

www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/shopping-i-can-t-really-remember-what-that-is/ This is the new normal.

What's stopping them opening up all those Nightingale hospitals? They were ready in May, they should be still ready?

No. Let's effectively shut businesses instead and send the nation into a blind panic.

@Lowkee

A year will be too late for this pandemic. Well just accept dancing in and out of lockdown to the government's tune for years to come then and blame anyone bar yourself or the bloody short-sighted government for the fiasco.

I don't accept that we will be dancing in and out of the lockdown. We will have a vaccine by Easter. We will have better tests and a fair amount of the population will have some immunity. I don't disagree that we should train more medics and nurses but I think there needs to be done properly and that will take a few years. I think your suggestion would be a waste of money.

@TheFormattingIsWrong

What she actually seems to be saying is that she's willing to take a measured risk for the sake of the mental health of herself and her family. Mental illness can kill directly but can also physically manifest and result in stress, heart disease, high BP, fatigue, poor immunity, lethargy, stroke, cancer etc.

Yep but people don't want to hear that. They'd rather write me off as a rave having anti mask covid denier. That's fine.

This. They stick their fingers in their ears lalala can't hear you. It's easier to dub someone a covidiot than acknowledge that covid isn't the only thing killing people. Risk assessment is my line of work and I'll be damned if I don't apply those skills to ensure my mental health and that of my family isn't sacrificed.

How can a HCA be trained up to the level of a nurse in a year?! Come on. That is ridiculous.

You cant rush clinical experience and placements. It would be dangerous. Nurse training is 3 years and needs to be. Plus the access course for those without the necessary prior qualifications. It's the practical experience through placements that is so very key.

@gypsywater

How can a HCA be trained up to the level of a nurse in a year?! Come on. That is ridiculous.

They used to be trained up to be a less qualified nurse (SEN) years ago but even then it took two years.

We are complying with everything except the 'no households mixing'. Currently its only MIL, and we are her 'support bubble' which is allowed. But, if my parents, siblings, DHs dad, siblings..wanted to come over we wouldn't refuse it (unless all wanted to come at once, that would be, in my mind a larger risk). So I guess we are sticking to the rules but with potential of breaking them.

Only people we have seen for months now are MIL and my sister. My sister is a nurse..and apparently a lot of her colleagues are seeing family in small amounts also. Know next to noone following 100%. I did know many, and was one of them when it was rule of 6 and stuff. But yeah, the no mixing at all..has massively reduced compliance it seems. Still following everything else, not been out for months except for the odd supermarket shop which one of us has gone for and the rest stayed in. Only mixing that really gets one at the min is kids in school.

@Funkypolar

Chris Green, MP:

“They are both in tier three and the tiering system is designed to simplify the rules so everyone will find them easier to follow over the coming years.”

Not months. Years.

I very much doubt he knows anything we don’t, he’s just spouting off against lockdowns