I'm calling it - people aren't complying.

[TheFormattingIsWrong]

Local lockdowns aren't working. The North has proven that. Why would it be different in London or anywhere else for that matter? People have stopped complying. They did it in March when it was implied by Bojo that it was going to be a 3 month thing, but as it has become abundantly clear that that this is going to be a way of living until there is a vaccine, and there is no guarantee on a vaccine, people have just said sod it then, I'm not living that way.

I won't be complying. I'll be continuing to see my mum and my sisters. I'd obey it to the letter if it was a 2 week circuit breaker, but as it's clear we're going to have to live this way until at least next Spring, no, I won't be complying.

And for those who say "oh well that's why cases are going up" - until this government kicks itself up the arse and gets a functioning test and trace system in place, they always would anyway. Either it's lockdown or it's cases rising. And most of us aren't prepared to live without seeing family or friends (yes, indoors!) until Spring.

Impending mass civil disobedience.

Mr Drakeford warned that 2,500 people were now being infected with coronavirus every day in Wales, with critical care units in hospitals full.

Here you are 110APiccadilly. I don’t lie. I don’t cherry pick. Here is a cold hard fact for you and a link. I wish I could feel good about being right but it’s just bloody awful and I really wish I was wrong.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54566566

You're 'calling it'...I would never be so cold hearted as to to 'call it' when lives are at stake. Shocking lack of empathy.

I suspect this is the difference between some critical care units, and "critical care beds", which to me implies all of them in Wales. Some units being full will happen every winter, I imagine.

Of course Drakeford wants you to think it's all of them. It's not.

You're 'calling it'...I would never be so cold hearted as to to 'call it' when lives are at stake

Merely saying it as I see it, that people aren't complying.

@RonaLisa

Totally agree
We can’t go on like this for years.
I’m sick of the rules and the people who ‘police’ them
You can’t stand here, you can’t use that door

I’m sick of people trying to treat me like a child.
They get short shrift if the do

It’s time to say
No to the nonsense!

This is worse than getting covid which most people will survive anyway.

@Funkypolar

Yes
Did you see the Liverpool gym owners banded together and refused to close.
Good for them.
They now can stay open.
Well done people of Liverpool

@ripples101 I agree but few if anyone on this thread has decided to do nothing. Most have curtailed their social lives almost entirely but want to see family. Whether that’s right or wrong, such people are not doing nothing, they’ve actually still given up a lot.

And what of people like myself ripples who'd love to be able to socially distance and be able to take mitigations but can't because we're pretending it's safe to be in a bubble with 2000 kids, their families, their families colleagues, everyone on public transport etc?

How is someone who wfh, doesn't have kids in school, doesn't use public transport and has their shopping delivered deemed to be irresponsible and literally killing people whilst the situation in schools is fine and dandy? Where is the proportion in that?

How am I, or any school staff, or any school kids, or any family of school kids, or anyone who lives near a school and witnesses it meant to believe that the risk factor is carefully visiting their sister or friend?

When the rules are a blatant farce people are less likely to comply. When we're pretending totally high risk situations are fine and dandy but being told a low risk encounter is selfish reckless and murderous how is there to be any credibility?

It's always been the case surely that you need social consensus built on trust and evidence and clearly shared coherent goals and strategies that people will get on board with in order to lead.

Some people on here are literally calling for their to be laws against seeing family - do no alarm bells go off when people say things like that?

Someone who has no work outside the home or social contacts being arrested and criminalised for visiting their sister? Or someone being forced to work without social distancing with teenagers from 1000+ different household by day being arrested for visiting a family member/friend of an evening?

People can't comply with insanity that hasn't even attempted to evidence it's purpose or what it hopes to achieve.

@ripples101 I don't want to argue with you, because you make such reasonable points and in such a nice way.

The thing is... Some of us are being forced to make massive sacrifices (such as watching our entire livelihoods go under), while others are just wearing a face-mask in Waitrose when they'd rather not.

As for our university children: they are sacrificing the best of their university experience. Why??? Because one of their lecturers might be vulnerable, or might live with an elderly parent who's vulnerable? That's too big a sacrifice, frankly. They ought to be getting on with it in the way that I did 30 years ago.

Did your sector effectively close down in March? If so, how are you paying your mortgage/rent? How are you feeding and housing your children? As I said, I'm lucky as I can spend the money I was saving as a pension fund (I have no pension) in order to keep our home.

Why is it so hard to understand that some people are really, really struggling? I'm talking about myself here - but there are people who are far worse off than I am. God help them.

I'm fortunate that despite being part time and on a low enough income to get a bit of universal tax credit top up (health issues are why are I don't work more hours) my pay is secure. On the other hand I have virtually zero covid protection and no ability to socially distance in my work and am having to deal with a government pretending it's totally safe in schools.

I actually used the covid example with a class today to explain how sources (accounts from people who were there and were recorded at the time) are usually narrow eg. if historians of the future asked about how lockdown was they would get very different accounts from someone living in a 9th floor flat in a tenement building with 4 kids than from someone living in a semi detached with a garden in an area with lots of open space for walks. Likewise from those people whose incomes were secure or had savings compared to those who were scraping by and in debt even before this happened. The historian would have to look at lots of sources and evidence in order to make an interpretation that wasn't narrow or prejudiced.

We have all experienced lockdown differently and we have all experienced opening up again differently. The risks of the former will have been felt more acutely by some and the risks of the latter more acutely by some.

Saying just follow the rules is easy from some situations and devastating from others and for those in my situation not even allowed.

110APiccadilly

I suspect this is the difference between some critical care units, and "critical care beds", which to me implies all of them in Wales. Some units being full will happen every winter, I imagine.

Of course Drakeford wants you to think it's all of them. It's not.

Mark Drakeford is directly quoting the press release from NHS Wales CEO. The press release that all NHS staff in Wales will have seen today or will see shortly once it filters down the communication layers. The one that says that this will have an impact on other services such as planned surgery.

And yes. In Wales. And no, this isn’t how it is normally.

You are really clutching at straws here and I do understand why. I really do. It’s scary. I wish it were different too but we have to face up to it. Denying it’s happening won’t make it go away. And flouting the rules will make it worse.

We HAVE to change how we live and continue to social distance, wear masks and wash our hands. We HAVE to follow the guidelines as best we can and support each other to do that. It’s hard. It’s shit. It’s awful. But it is what it is and we need to support each other to get through it as best we can. [

@RonaLisa

I don’t want to argue either. Every one has concerns, and I don’t think anyone should dismiss these concerns. So so many people, entire communities even, are being thrown under a bus, being made to sacrifice more than others. And many people understandably are saying “for what?”.

The government has made a complete balls up of this situation. And I totally understand why people would say “no more”.

Don’t comply with the rules. I get that. But to those who are not complying, what sacrifices are they making?

My point is not to discredit or devalue what ANYONE is going through. I have total empathy for all. Some do have it much worse than others. My point is rather that there is more that some people can do that can help people such as yourself and honey badger for example. It isn’t enough to just come on and say “I’m not complying”. To say “the rules are shit”. I want to know what CAN you do? What ARE you prepared to do, not only for yourself, but for others too?

I’ve sacrificed going out with friends and family. I haven’t been out since March. Face to face company has been with 2 people - my parents, on a sporadic basis. I’m self employed, lost 40% of my income, but fortunately the remaining 60% (plus Seiss) has enabled me to cover all outgoings. I have it better than a lot of people. All I want to do is what ever I can (however little it may be) so that I don’t play any part in making it worse for any one else. I live on my own, I stay at home, I only go out for food. I wear a mask. I keep mi distance. I wait outside a corner shop until it is empty inside. What I’m doing is nothing special or even that difficult or big a sacrifice. But it helps. It’s something.

I don’t want to catch it. But if I do, I most certainly do not want to pass it on to anyone else.

If I catch it from someone who doesn’t give a shit about any of it, and acts like they don’t give a shit, then that would piss me off completely.

If I were to pass it on because I didn’t give a shit, then that would make me a heartless, selfish person. I don’t want to be that kind of a person. Irrespective of how disillusioned I feel towards the government.

You're seeing your parents which is all the OP said she was going to do - see her mother and sister. She's literally doing the same as you so?

What do you mean “so”?

The OP is talking about People not complying. This thread isn’t just about the OP.

And in my first post on this thread, I said I’m asking my questions to anyone, irrespective of whether they are complying or not.

@ripples101 I think you made a good point.

You seem to be saying... it’s hard for all of us. It’s not been managed well. Not everyone is 100% following the rules - but what are we doing that is positive?

That is a much better way of acting together. No one is perfect, but we are still trying to take care of one another. I get that and I support that.

For me, I haven’t seen my mother since March - it’s awful really. However I don’t begrudge the OP if she wants to see hers.

What I do begrudge is then coming on a public forum and supporting anyone who does whatever they want because ‘it’s all rubbish’ or whatever. I can’t support that.

How do you know@Bluesheep8do you Covid curtain twitch and know everything about these peoples lives? You must spend HOURS researching people's lives

No, I don't. I know because I ask what people did at the weekend as part of general chit chat. No hours of research required.

[quote Msmcc1212]Mr Drakeford warned that 2,500 people were now being infected with coronavirus every day in Wales, with critical care units in hospitals full.

Here you are 110APiccadilly. I don’t lie. I don’t cherry pick. Here is a cold hard fact for you and a link. I wish I could feel good about being right but it’s just bloody awful and I really wish I was wrong.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54566566[/quote]
Errr...

"A Welsh Government spokeswoman said Mr Drakeford was quoting the estimated number of cases, including untested and asymptomatic, not the daily confirmed cases reported by Public Health Wales."

Direct quote from the article. I suggest people read the whole article , which explains exactly where the data he uses comes from, before assuming Drakeford is referring to actual official current data.

Louisianna16

You are right. The figure for infections is estimated but if you look back at why I was responding to 110Picadilly you will see that what I was being doubted about is the accuracy of my post saying that the NHS Wales CEO stated in a press release that critical care units in Wales are now full and this will have an impact on other services such as planned surgery. I posted the link to the article to show that this is indeed the case and not a figment of my imagination. Not regarding infection rates. That just happens to be part of the quote.

I posted about this to show that Covid absolutely has the capacity to impact the ability of the NHS to look after us as that is being doubted and fuelling a sense that we don’t need to make changes to our behaviour.

My point still stands that hospitals will not be able to provide the care that we need if we don’t all pull together and keep the Covid rate down. I wish it wasn’t true. But it is.

You're not obliged to read my thread love.

I didn’t. I read the title and your first post. The title says PEOPLE aren’t complying. But you actually wanted to tell us that you wouldn’t be complying. Attention seeking behaviour.......love.

Merely saying it as I see it, that people aren't complying.

I am complying, my friends are complying, it’s a certain type of person that isn’t. And they’re often the type that have to tell everyone about it. 🙄 What sort of twat says ‘I’m calling it’....I am cringing for you. Just get on with it.

My best friend (a nurse) lives in a house share in a high risk area and is so fed up with it all she’s officially hired her cousin as a cleaner so they can still go over to her house and hang out. They’ve drawn up a pretend contract... all perfectly legal.

I was honestly quite impressed when she told me, the loophole finding is astounding

I don’t know anyone not complying. We’re in Tier 2, about to go up to the highest tier.

Pictures attached of what are usually heaving city night life streets. No one on them. Taken from the local paper. These streets are usually rammed. Not enough space to walk on them.

Here is the info on hospitalisation and capacity for Wales. Yes, hospitalisations and ICU requirement are increasing, as everywhere, but it doesn't seem to be at capacity, and is nowhere near earlier in the summer. Not that that's a target to be reached, of course. But it does imply that it's only some units at capacity. Of course, other non covid illnesses are also requiring treatment, and this will likely increase in the coming weeks too. It's for Mr Drakeford to decide politically what to do, of course, but I'm becoming increasingly sceptical of the way politicians (in all the nations...) spin the data to make it appear we are on the verge of apocalypse to justify some political decision, when it would be fine to say "look, we're worried about the numbers and the direction of travel...we think these measures will help bring down the increase so we still have capacity for other things in the coming weeks".

*What sort of twat says ‘I’m calling it’....I am cringing for you. Just get on with it"

The early noughties called and wants its slang back.