I'm calling it - people aren't complying.

[TheFormattingIsWrong]

Local lockdowns aren't working. The North has proven that. Why would it be different in London or anywhere else for that matter? People have stopped complying. They did it in March when it was implied by Bojo that it was going to be a 3 month thing, but as it has become abundantly clear that that this is going to be a way of living until there is a vaccine, and there is no guarantee on a vaccine, people have just said sod it then, I'm not living that way.

I won't be complying. I'll be continuing to see my mum and my sisters. I'd obey it to the letter if it was a 2 week circuit breaker, but as it's clear we're going to have to live this way until at least next Spring, no, I won't be complying.

And for those who say "oh well that's why cases are going up" - until this government kicks itself up the arse and gets a functioning test and trace system in place, they always would anyway. Either it's lockdown or it's cases rising. And most of us aren't prepared to live without seeing family or friends (yes, indoors!) until Spring.

@userxx

Yep. And I'm sitting in the North, having obeyed the rules from the start, seeing where it goes with people selfishly doing what they please.

We can't stay locked up indoors until a vaccine is found. It started spreading like wildfire when the kids went back to school, it was obviously going to happen, it was expected, so why are you putting the blame on "selfish" people?

Numbers were rising BEFORE kids went back to school!

@MadameBlobby

I have absolutely no idea what you’re on about *@TheClaws* I haven’t broken a single rule nor has my partner and kids since all this began. I might think some of the rules are idiotic, pointless and clearly not working but I have still been following them 100%. Whatever you are on about, you are clearly mistaken in your reference to me as a “rule avoider”. Not that I need to justify myself to you or anyone else.

All righty then Blobby. I remember how cruel you've been even if you don't.

@Bluesheep8

But .... they maybe exempt, special bubble, support bubble, key worker, NHS, pizza delivery, exceptional case, essential journey, essential reasons ....

The people I'm talking about are none of the above. They are people who have decided to repeatedly have groups of people round for dinner and stay the night or go to large house parties.

That's the same at Unis. In my son's flat of 8, 7 of them have followed the rules. 1 went out socialising/partying every night with loads of other people from different flats etc. He caught covid within 5 days of arriving at Uni, meaning everyone else had to isolate. If people follow the rules, the spread will be slower. It's the idiots who just do what the hell they want who are causing the increased spread.

@MarshaBradyo

Icecream yes I do think it can grow from either perspective. Either the empathetic/ compliance or the opposite. We are very social and follow other people’s cues. I seem to see a lot of compliance around me (masks, SD, mitigation etc) especially in comparison to many posts on mn.

I find it slightly reassuring but given this pandemic is proving to be so localised I’d be worried to hear no one is complying if I lived in Manchester (as pp said no one was complying).

The effect on hospitals and incomes will be more severely felt in those areas.

I know it’s tough. There are days where everyone wants to just say sod it. I’m fed up but we’ve just been put in tier 2. I’ll ‘lean in’ as they said on radio as the alternative is stricter lick down. Which I really don’t want.

Yes I do see this too. Most people I know are really trying their best. Not always following rules to the letter, but absolutely trying their best. It makes me also feel that me being quite careful - to be honest I go way beyond ‘rules’ as I feel that every small thing that I can do helps - it makes me feel that it is worthwhile as there is some kind of collective pulling together.

That is different from blaming, shaming or nit picking. I really don’t like divisiveness it is pointless. It is also different from ridiculing others who follow ‘rules’ as like sheep or who must have better circumstances. It is all divisiveness.

In my area the ICU unit is full already and it’s very serious. I walk out and see most people making an effort. Particularly many young people I have to say, as well as older. It’s quite an amazing heart warming feeling to see how people are doing something to possibly protect me, and me them, even though we don’t know each other.

I think on the whole the vast majority are trying to pull together still for the collective good. It must be awful reading about people who are not bothering because they don’t care if you work in ICU or have had a family member die.

How do you know @Bluesheep8 do you Covid curtain twitch and know everything about these peoples lives? You must spend HOURS researching people's lives

Had a look through some old posts @theclaws and nope not a single one where I said I wasn’t following the rules. In fact plenty where I said I was. Since you can’t provide any examples either I suggest you are either mistaken or shit stirring.

Loving the fact that if you're in an established relationship in tier 2 & 3 you can still mix households.

Nonsense

Numbers were rising BEFORE kids went back to school!

It was STEADY around here, the kids went back and it went mad!!

Yes, it was really low in this area, increasing 5 or 6 fold in the past 2 or 3 weeks, sadly. We are now on amber alert.

@Msmcc1212

The hospitals are not overwhelmed so that's not even an argument.

I’m afraid that this is no longer true. Critical care beds in Wales are now full and most Health Boards are implementing plans to increase critical care. This will have an impact on things like planned surgery. This was in a press release from the CEO of NHS Wales.

He also said that there will be lots of other impacts too. For example 10% of calls are now to do with Covid related symptoms. It can take a paramedic up to 6 minutes to put on the necessary PPE. This alone will have an impact on ambulance response times.

Anyone who is actively flouting the rules, for no good reason other than they don’t like them, has blood on their hands.

Neighbours friend died yesterday after 2 weeks of Covid. Early 40s, no health issues and leaves behind young children

It's odd that the CEO of NHS Wales seems to have a different set of data to the Welsh Government. This isn't showing ICU beds as full: gov.wales/nhs-activity-and-capacity-during-coronavirus-covid-19-pandemic-15-october-2020

@yawnsvillex

Loving the fact that if you're in an established relationship in tier 2 & 3 you can still mix households.

Nonsense

You do realise that these couples, unless one of them was a single adult household, weren't officially allowed to get within 2m of each other from 23rd March to early September? And from March to May couldn't see each other at all. They have now had a few weeks of being able to meet properly - do you really think they should go back to not being able to see each other again, and for an unknown length of time?

@Bluesheep8

I'm very sorry for your loss, but that was your choice, and it wouldn't be mine.

Thank you. But it's a case of obeying the law rather than making a choice.

Obeying the law no matter what is a very slippery slope.

Well, the kids are super spreaders aren't they? I’m
Amazed no one thought that sending schools back wouldn’t make a difference, of course it would. The bubble things is entirely useless and just something for us to focus on to distract us all feeling completely helpless and vulnerable. Schools were always a breeding ground of germs.

@Msmcc1212

The hospitals are not overwhelmed so that's not even an argument.

I’m afraid that this is no longer true. Critical care beds in Wales are now full and most Health Boards are implementing plans to increase critical care. This will have an impact on things like planned surgery. This was in a press release from the CEO of NHS Wales.

He also said that there will be lots of other impacts too. For example 10% of calls are now to do with Covid related symptoms. It can take a paramedic up to 6 minutes to put on the necessary PPE. This alone will have an impact on ambulance response times.

Anyone who is actively flouting the rules, for no good reason other than they don’t like them, has blood on their hands.

Neighbours friend died yesterday after 2 weeks of Covid. Early 40s, no health issues and leaves behind young children

Look, if you're going to use stuff like this to try and convince people, do keep track of what you're saying. You wrote the exact same paragraph as in earlier post (quoted down below) but now it's your neighbour's friend. Let me guess, it's a typo.

I seriously can't bear this "my friends neighbours brother says..." anecdata.

"Neighbours son, early 40s, no other health conditions, young children, just died after 2 weeks of Covid.

Those flouting the rules purposefully and for no good reason. This is what happens"

Well spotted Which. I did re-post as didn’t think it had worked and changed it the second time around as, on reflection, I worried it was identifiable.

The fact remains that a father has left his young DC which is devastating for the family. This is not like the flu and it doesn’t just effect ‘other people’ it can effect us all.

110APiccadilly

Press release just out today. Hasn’t made it out there yet.

It doesn’t make a difference if you pick apart the figures. The fact is hospitals are getting busier and busier and there will be an impact, whether you believe me that this is already happening or not and if people don’t stick to the rules this will get worse and will require more stringent rules. Wales is going into a more strict national lockdown next week. It’s happening whether you agree with me or not.

Denial is a normal human reaction and it’s understandable but we have to learn how to live our best lives within the restrictions and support each other with that.

Thats weird we had a strict lockdown ( not like the crap attempts in England). It was hard. But it did work and our numbers have stayed low since.

If the English govt did an efficient lockdown and ppl followed it, then it would work.

But all you who know better go break the rules, doread it further and ruin it for us.

What country are you in Torvean?

When you say your lockdown 'worked' that will be because of other measures put in place to stop infections rising again as you opened up. That's what has been missing in the UK. I'm glad your country has done better.

It's not 'who had the hardest lockdown', it's 'who used the lockdown time most wisely'.

I’ve got to page 13 of this thread and it’s been annoying and frustrating to read. This situation has created such contention throughout society, where people are turning on each other, yet every single one of us are in this together. Whether you choose to comply or not, the worries are exactly the same for all of us. Loss of income, jobs, homes, contact with family, friends, right through to death of family and friends. And of course the worry that for those who haven’t caught it yet, the worry that you may be one of the unfortunate ones who suffers greatly, or even dies from it.

Those who no longer want to comply, what is your solution?

Those who are complying, how long can you keep doing so?

We are all fed up and pissed off. We are all having to make sacrifices. Some are losing income. Some are losing homes. Some are losing jobs. Some are losing loved ones. Some here will lose their lives.

So I ask this of anyone, irrespective of whether you are complying or not, what’s you’re own end game here? What exactly do you want to achieve? What do you want to happen?

I reckon most people’s answers to this, irrespective of whether you comply or not, will ultimately be the same.

We just want it to be over.

The question then is,

What can YOU do that may help in getting to that point as quickly as is possible?

@Msmcc1212

110APiccadilly

Press release just out today. Hasn’t made it out there yet.

It doesn’t make a difference if you pick apart the figures. The fact is hospitals are getting busier and busier and there will be an impact, whether you believe me that this is already happening or not and if people don’t stick to the rules this will get worse and will require more stringent rules. Wales is going into a more strict national lockdown next week. It’s happening whether you agree with me or not.

Denial is a normal human reaction and it’s understandable but we have to learn how to live our best lives within the restrictions and support each other with that.

Well, it's technically possible that the numbers in those beds have nearly doubled in 2 days (that's what you'd need to fill them). Anecdotal evidence (and the current trends from, e.g. testing data and the ONS prevalence survey) suggests that's not in the least likely but I suppose we'll know for sure next Wednesday, when the data's published.

I find it odd that you think looking at actual data is denial, in fact so odd that I don't see any point continuing this discussion further. If you prefer a press release (which you haven't even linked to) to hard cold facts, that's your problem not mine.

@ripples101 You make some thoughtful points. However, the essential problem is that we are not all in it together at all, because we're all affected in so many different ways.

We don't all have the same worries. You assume we are all worried about catching Covid. I'm not. If I hadn't lost my job and could WFH with my income remaining unchanged, I'd be pissed off and fed up with not being able to do the things I like doing - but I wouldn't be in the slightest bit worried about catching Covid, or about any of my family or friends catching it. I don't sit around worrying about catching pneumonia or pleurisy or swine flu (even though I've had all three), and I don't sit around worrying about catching Covid, either.

I'm angry because I've lost my entire livelihood. I also realise that I'm far more fortunate than other people, because my children are still fed and housed (because I had savings).

But there is no togetherness about any of this.

@ripples101

I would also say that what I want is for all the 'safety' measures to be dropped overnight. I want my university aged children to enjoy their time at university in the way that I did (even if that means they have a few days of feeling under the weather with Covid). I want to do exactly as I did before everyone started flapping about Covid. I want those who are vulnerable to take whatever precautions they do or don't want to take (because not all 'vulnerable' people want to live in a bunker and see nobody until they die).

I realise, though, that I'm in a minority here. However, it does show that we can never be 'in this together'.

I cut my 40 year old dds hair today.
Had a good old chin wag with our plumber when he called last to check on the bathroom leak
Oh and Im off to Tenerife shortly
shoot me now

If roolz make sense and are fair, I’ll comply
But this lunacy has Got to stop and until it does
I really can’t be arsed with it.

Last = past

@RonaLisa

We are all in this together in the sense that it is all affecting us in some way. How it affects us does not have to be a contest. Some have it worse than others. Some are having it relatively easy. Some are dying. Others are potentially having long term health problems. Some are losing their jobs. Others are losing their homes.

We are all in this together in the sense that it is having an impact on our lives. Whatever that impact may be.

The following isn’t aimed at you Rona, but rather morre generally.

Don’t want to comply with the regulations? Fine. What are you going to do to try and lessen the impact? Can’t wear a mask, either for a medical reason or just because you can’t be bothered. Ok. So what else are you going to do? Don’t want to stop seeing your friends. Ok. So how else can you help? Don’t want to stop seeing your family? Ok. So what else are you going to do?

Every single one of us can make some kind of sacrifice. However small, it can help.

We can all do something.

There is no excuse to do nothing.