I'm calling it - people aren't complying.

[TheFormattingIsWrong]

Local lockdowns aren't working. The North has proven that. Why would it be different in London or anywhere else for that matter? People have stopped complying. They did it in March when it was implied by Bojo that it was going to be a 3 month thing, but as it has become abundantly clear that that this is going to be a way of living until there is a vaccine, and there is no guarantee on a vaccine, people have just said sod it then, I'm not living that way.

I won't be complying. I'll be continuing to see my mum and my sisters. I'd obey it to the letter if it was a 2 week circuit breaker, but as it's clear we're going to have to live this way until at least next Spring, no, I won't be complying.

And for those who say "oh well that's why cases are going up" - until this government kicks itself up the arse and gets a functioning test and trace system in place, they always would anyway. Either it's lockdown or it's cases rising. And most of us aren't prepared to live without seeing family or friends (yes, indoors!) until Spring.

@TheClaws

That’s probably about right @TheClaws. I don’t know why you have put me in that category though given I have followed every rule throughout and I continue to do so.

I put you in the 'Rule Avoiders' category, MadadeBlobby, as you have a history of sneering at people who follow the rules.

That’s a bit silly is it not, given I follow all the rules myself. Or are you saying I am sneering at myself?

OP asked what has gone wrong in the North. Being in the North myself, I'd say that it's a result of people not following the rules and mixing households because that's what suits them. In much the same way as she and many others plan to do.

That's all cause mortality for January of that year.

Here's all the flu data from the phe, knock yourself out.

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/annual-flu-reports

The people I would sneer at @TheClaws are the people who make up their own version of the rules and then berate people for not complying. Like those who berated people for going to the shops for bread and milk. I’ve not broken a single rule in the last 7 months this has gone on for so not quite sure how that makes me a “Rule Avoider”. Can you explain?

LouStew - I don't read that article as stating that all 64,000 died of flu. An additional 20,000 people died (I agree not an insignificant number) and flu was considered to be a factor.

Given that rates seem to be on the rise in France, Germany, Spain etc, could it be that it’s nothing people/countries are or aren’t doing right or wrong, it’s just an inevitable second wave?

@FractionalGains

Given that rates seem to be on the rise in France, Germany, Spain etc, could it be that it’s nothing people/countries are or aren’t doing right or wrong, it’s just an inevitable second wave?

It is rising although Germany is still much lower and Italy has faired better out of lockdown. Not sure if that’s changed in last week or so.

Because we don’t know enough about Covid-19 and it’s long term affects. It’s completely different to flu etc which is why they’re trying to slow it down and learn more about it as quickly as possible.

@Bluesheep8

OP asked what has gone wrong in the North. Being in the North myself, I'd say that it's a result of people not following the rules and mixing households because that's what suits them. In much the same way as she and many others plan to do.

There is that. We can see where it goes

@TheFormattingIsWrong

The thing is that yes, if I passed covid onto my father (or whoever) and he died, yes I would feel bad.

But I would also feel bad if I'd passed flu, norovirus or chickenpox (he hasn't had it) on to him and he'd died.

Someone please tell me what the difference is, on a personal level.

My post was in response to this.

There is that. We can see where it goes

Yep. And I'm sitting in the North, having obeyed the rules from the start, seeing where it goes with people selfishly doing what they please.

Yep. And I'm sitting in the North, having obeyed the rules from the start, seeing where it goes with people selfishly doing what they please.

We can't stay locked up indoors until a vaccine is found. It started spreading like wildfire when the kids went back to school, it was obviously going to happen, it was expected, so why are you putting the blame on "selfish" people?

What I can't get my head round about the "rules" is how they are going to enforce them .... even if you do get a fine, it then goes to court because why the fuck would you pay it ... one has to prove solidly you broke the rules.

With all the exceptions, exemptions, bubbles, support, essential journeys etc ..

How does one properly police it?!?

Making MORE rules is having a detrimental effect.

@MadameBlobby

The people I would sneer at *@TheClaws* are the people who make up their own version of the rules and then berate people for not complying. Like those who berated people for going to the shops for bread and milk. I’ve not broken a single rule in the last 7 months this has gone on for so not quite sure how that makes me a “Rule Avoider”. Can you explain?

You've constantly berated people for following the rules, so why should we suddenly believe you are a dedicated COVID rule follower?

We can't stay locked up indoors until a vaccine is found. It started spreading like wildfire when the kids went back to school, it was obviously going to happen, it was expected, so why are you putting the blame on "selfish" people?

I'm not locked up indoors. I'm just not going into other people's houses or meeting other households in pubs. Because it's against the law here and has been for many weeks. The selfish people to whom I refer are the ones who ARE doing these things. Because the rules don't apply to them, apparently.

We have been in an area with local restrictions since July, when cases were actually quite low in our town. Since then cases have sky rocketed. It's had no effect. We are verging on tier 3 restrictions now, but there's no way I won't be seeing family all winter after not seeing them properly for months.

@Bluesheep8

But .... they maybe exempt, special bubble, support bubble, key worker, NHS, pizza delivery, exceptional case, essential journey, essential reasons ....

But .... they maybe exempt, special bubble, support bubble, key worker, NHS, pizza delivery, exceptional case, essential journey, essential reasons ....

The people I'm talking about are none of the above. They are people who have decided to repeatedly have groups of people round for dinner and stay the night or go to large house parties.

Maybe I am just very limited in my social knowledge, but I honestly do not know a single person who is having parties, or large groups over to their house, or people (unreasonably) stay the night. I say unreasonably, because I know one person who has had their mother stay to help her with her toddler after a c-section which ended in a hysterectomy. Her DH has gone back to work. I cannot possibly say that girl is selfish.

Are people really seeing lots of house parties and unreasonable social behaviour lately? Or are you just assuming its happening?

@Bluesheep8 But people haven’t been following the local restrictions since they started months ago and the figures were a lot lower, the minute the kids went back it went through the roof. It's obvious where its coming from. I just don’t get the "selfish" mentality.

The hospitals are not overwhelmed so that's not even an argument.

I’m afraid that this is no longer true. Critical care beds in Wales are now full and most Health Boards are implementing plans to increase critical care. This will have an impact on things like planned surgery. This was in a press release from the CEO of NHS Wales.

He also said that there will be lots of other impacts too. For example 10% of calls are now to do with Covid related symptoms. It can take a paramedic up to 6 minutes to put on the necessary PPE. This alone will have an impact on ambulance response times.

Anyone who is actively flouting the rules, for no good reason other than they don’t like them, has blood on their hands.

Neighbours friend died yesterday after 2 weeks of Covid. Early 40s, no health issues and leaves behind young children

[quote userxx]@Bluesheep8 But people haven’t been following the local restrictions since they started months ago and the figures were a lot lower, the minute the kids went back it went through the roof. It's obvious where its coming from. I just don’t get the "selfish" mentality.[/quote]
I agree. I really dont think this is down to huge amounts of people being selfish. Its down to people going to school, university, work. The things that have to keep happening. Thats not being selfish. Thats just life.

I think its just easier to believe its down to selfish people, because then you can believe it can be fixed. If you face the reality that its down to people going about their daily lives, then we need to face the fact that it can't be fixed unless we all sit in our sitting rooms indefinitely.

I have absolutely no idea what you’re on about @TheClaws I haven’t broken a single rule nor has my partner and kids since all this began. I might think some of the rules are idiotic, pointless and clearly not working but I have still been following them 100%. Whatever you are on about, you are clearly mistaken in your reference to me as a “rule avoider”. Not that I need to justify myself to you or anyone else.

I think its just easier to believe its down to selfish people, because then you can believe it can be fixed. If you face the reality that its down to people going about their daily lives, then we need to face the fact that it can't be fixed unless we all sit in our sitting rooms indefinitely.

That's a really good point.... I think I just get angered by the fact that I have made some big sacrifices and it seems so pointless when some other people aren't doing the same. But I do take your well.put point.

I think its just easier to believe its down to selfish people, because then you can believe it can be fixed. If you face the reality that its down to people going about their daily lives, then we need to face the fact that it can't be fixed unless we all sit in our sitting rooms indefinitely.

Absolutely this