I'm calling it - people aren't complying.

[TheFormattingIsWrong]

Local lockdowns aren't working. The North has proven that. Why would it be different in London or anywhere else for that matter? People have stopped complying. They did it in March when it was implied by Bojo that it was going to be a 3 month thing, but as it has become abundantly clear that that this is going to be a way of living until there is a vaccine, and there is no guarantee on a vaccine, people have just said sod it then, I'm not living that way.

I won't be complying. I'll be continuing to see my mum and my sisters. I'd obey it to the letter if it was a 2 week circuit breaker, but as it's clear we're going to have to live this way until at least next Spring, no, I won't be complying.

And for those who say "oh well that's why cases are going up" - until this government kicks itself up the arse and gets a functioning test and trace system in place, they always would anyway. Either it's lockdown or it's cases rising. And most of us aren't prepared to live without seeing family or friends (yes, indoors!) until Spring.

@TheFormattingIsWrong

I’d be worried to hear no one is complying if I lived in Manchester (as pp said no one was complying).

It's pretty obvious something isn't working in Manchester (and other places in the North).

There are probably many factors. One might be non compliance.

Are you saying that’s what is having the highest impact?

Are you saying that’s what is having the highest impact?

I have absolutely no idea but I suspect it'll be quite high up the list.

It may well be.

It’s a very difficult position, I really feel for everyone there because it will get tougher. For health care staff especially.

I think it's about proceeding with common sense. Be respectful, wear a mask, wash hands, keep a distance, don't have house parties but if you pop in on the odd person for a cup of tea and a chat it's fine imo. I appreciate they want to keep hospitality businesses going for economic reasons which is also really important but meeting that way isn't practical for everyone for various reasons.

The politicians have proved themselves to be breakers of their own rules. Let's not forget Dom Cummings Road trip to a castle to test his eye sight amongst many others flouting the rules!

I don't disagree with that at all, as a working parent myself, however you can see, can't you, that it would grate on certain people to be told they can't see their family when other people's children are mixing with hundreds of others on a daily basis?

I think the benefits for everyone of having children in school need to be spelt out more clearly.

An educated workforce for the future. Ensuring parents are free to deliver their key worker/essential services roles. Allowing parents who are private sector workers to generate revenue for the exchequer rather than being forced into ‘taking’ in the form of benefits.

However, there is a more general conversation to be had about what’s a reasonable sacrifice to ask people to make in the fight against CV and not seeing family and friends just isn’t in my view.

We need to shift this whole conversation. What’s sensible, reasonable and easy (masks/SD and so on) fine, let’s do that. Measures in place for those who choose to shield. Everything possible to support the health service. But we can’t take all the things that make life living away from people indefinitely and expect them to go along with that.

TheKeatingFive

I agree with your whole post.

@TheKeatingFive 100% agree with everything you have said, not seeing families is just too much to ask

I also think people need to stop pretending that seeing family 2 m away outside in the rain, or on zoom, is a reasonable substitute because it isn't.

TheKeating do you think the things you list are enough to keep schools in class?

I also agree @TheKeatingFive this is threat we need to learn to live with in the most sensible and respectful way possible. People need to see friends and family it's so important. We are social creatures that need need to maintain those connections.

This graph another reason why people are done with it all. Those who are supposedly on the "right" side of the scientific debate have consistently put out figures which are vastly overinflated. There is being slightly out and there is been massively out. Are they doing this on purpose just to scaremonger? That's the only possible conclusion one can draw, unless, they are simply not as clever as people seem to think they are.

That graph looks like it comes from the daily mail, I recognise the awful font.

The big issue is that cutting transmission chains in homes is a good idea to keep R down but hard socially and hard to enforce.

So then we end up with closed businesses and schools. Obviously some won’t mind as they don’t need to use school and income won’t be impacted (public sector / safer sector). And not much can convince.

But if you do care about income etc then lowering indoor transmission is a good idea.

Msmcc1212
"Neighbours son, early 40s, no other health conditions, young children, just died after 2 weeks of Covid.
"Those flouting the rules purposefully and for no good reason. This is what happens. sad".
This is very sad but anecdotal stuff like this is utterly meaningless. It tells us absolutely nothing. It is no different to somebody else saying they couldn't get a doctor's appointment for a lump which turned out to be cancer when they finally got it checked out.

Really they need to get those speedy saliva tests sorted. Then you could all test before a family gathering and it would only go ahead if everyone's test was negative.

TheFormattingIsWrong it is from dm. Still stands up though. The DM is a rag, let's be honest. But .. it is one of the few media outlets which has presented arguments from both sides during this pandemic.

Actually I think the DM is presenting a very specific agenda at this particular moment in time, in much the same way as the Guardian is.

It's agenda seems to be all over the place from what I can see. I get the feeling this issue has split their editorial dept down the middle.

I'd just like to throw a bit of positivity on the whole situation. As a family, we have grown much closer since the original lockdown. We SLOWED down in a major way. All of us have had so much time to think about what is actually important in life in the past several months, that somehow we managed to block out much of the unnecessary we used to be surrounded by. I think we grew more patient and understanding of each other, and others.

Jesus H Christ, are people still spouting this twee nonsense? I thought this died a death at the end of the first lockdown? Your poor child, trapped at home with their parents. Get your head out your arse (ass)

I think what people don't realise when they're sanctimoniously shrieking 'selfish!!' at those who say they won't comply, is that not complying doesn't necessarily mean they won't wear a mask or social distance in public or regularly wash their hands. It doesn't mean they'll go out on the lash every night and avoid track and trace. For the majority of us it simply means we won't be told we can't see our family members any more. We won't have our support network withheld. It doesn't mean we're dancing around flouting the rules tralala having 30 strong house parties, it just means we won't have every aspect of our lives micromanaged.

Equally for the many who say they avoid track and trace and get shouted at on MN for being selfish. Often avoiding track and trace means we just don't go to places that require it, thus not mingling in pubs and restaurants and lowering the number of patrons. Surely that's a good thing and will help reduce transmission far more than going here there and everywhere then saying oh but I did track and trace, like that makes you so virtuous!

Figures started going up when the eat out to help out nonsense started, and right on the back of that came kids and students back into education. Hello?? It's not rocket science. Oh but do let's blame those of us who still see our family members for a bit of moral support eh.

I think what people don't realise when they're sanctimoniously shrieking 'selfish!!' at those who say they won't comply, is that not complying doesn't necessarily mean they won't wear a mask or social distance in public or regularly wash their hands. It doesn't mean they'll go out on the lash every night and avoid track and trace. For the majority of us it simply means we won't be told we can't see our family members any more. We won't have our support network withheld. It doesn't mean we're dancing around flouting the rules tralala having 30 strong house parties, it just means we won't have every aspect of our lives micromanaged.

Precisely.

@Flaxmeadow

I won't be complying.

So if a large proportion of people have this attitude, will they be prepared to have no health service, no social services, no police etc.

And if we continue on this way more businesses will go under, more people will be unemployed and there won’t be enough tax payers to fund health services, social services, police etc

That’s probably about right @TheClaws. I don’t know why you have put me in that category though given I have followed every rule throughout and I continue to do so.

I put you in the 'Rule Avoiders' category, MadadeBlobby, as you have a history of sneering at people who follow the rules.

There are rules and rules.

Wearing masks, following the rule of 6 and trying to socialise outdoors (nice day today so a bit easier) make perfect sense and don't inconvenience the vast majority.

Telling people they can't see people in their gardens or can't drive across county boundaries or more than 5 miles from their homes is a nonsense.

It is not really surprising that people pick and choose the rules they'll comply with.

64000 deaths in 2018 blamed on flu is not made up. It may have been over flu season and not January alone? Is that what you mean? I couldn't reopen the whole article.