I'm calling it - people aren't complying.

[TheFormattingIsWrong]

Local lockdowns aren't working. The North has proven that. Why would it be different in London or anywhere else for that matter? People have stopped complying. They did it in March when it was implied by Bojo that it was going to be a 3 month thing, but as it has become abundantly clear that that this is going to be a way of living until there is a vaccine, and there is no guarantee on a vaccine, people have just said sod it then, I'm not living that way.

I won't be complying. I'll be continuing to see my mum and my sisters. I'd obey it to the letter if it was a 2 week circuit breaker, but as it's clear we're going to have to live this way until at least next Spring, no, I won't be complying.

And for those who say "oh well that's why cases are going up" - until this government kicks itself up the arse and gets a functioning test and trace system in place, they always would anyway. Either it's lockdown or it's cases rising. And most of us aren't prepared to live without seeing family or friends (yes, indoors!) until Spring.

It's worrying that so many people are not going to comply with the guidelines. I understand why people are fed up with all the restrictions, but if the transmission rates aren't slowed down we will see hospitals overwhelmed and the body count will be much worse than it would otherwise be. Please think twice before flouting the rules. It needn't be an all or nothing approach - there might be times when a rule has to be broken, eg. if someone is suffering serious mental health problems and desperately needs human contact, but please don't start partying and socialising in crowds. The hospitals are going to struggle enough without people escalating the infections needlessly.

These restrictions won't last forever. You only live once, but you can't socialise at all once you're dead.

Even WHO are now urging countries not to use lockdown measures other than temporarily to deal with being unprepared. They don't work. The effects of lockdown are more harmful than the virus itself. That is patently obvious to anyone with half a brain. You know, 64000 people died in January alone. Of the flu. In 2018. Hospitals overwhelmed. No one noticed because we didn't decide-on top of that-to plunge the country into a recession thereby increasing poverty, domestic abuse, suicide etc. We didn't close schools, cancel exams, imprison students and care home residents, separate families and encourage people to snitch on each other like East Germany. We didn't destroy whole sectors of society irreparably, ride roughshod over our hard sought after freedom, human rights and civil liberties. To say the cure has been worse than the ill is a massive understatement

@Kokeshi123

If I were in an area that prevented mixing bxt households, I would avoid indoor activities but I absolutely would be meeting people in outdoor settings. The risk is so low and we need some sort of semblance of normality here, folks.

That's what I'm doing

Met my mum earlier in a cafe that we could still meet outside in as had a nice outdoor area.
I think it comes down to frame of mind as to what you can or can't do. The way I see it you have to make the most of it

I think people are disregarding the rules because they do not believe the restrictions will help the situation

Or merely that they don’t care so long as they can do what they want irrespective of restrictions or others

Even WHO are now urging countries not to use lockdown measures other than temporarily to deal with being unprepared. They don't work. The effects of lockdown are more harmful than the virus itself. That is patently obvious to anyone with half a brain.

But people don't want to wear a mask, and they don't want to practice proper social distancing, and they don't want to isolate once they have tested positive, and they want to attend marches, and parties, and jam up close together unmasked in great numbers shouting and drinking and protesting. What the WHO is suggesting requires the public to wear masks, practice social distancing, isolate and get tested when unwell, and for the country to have proper testing facilities and a functioning track and trace system in place - in the absence of all the above, restrictions on socialising and movement are necessary. Which should be obvious to anyone with half a brain, but it seems a larger proportion than I ever imagined, worldwide, have far less than half a brain and also sadly seem to be missing entire portions of their hearts also.

Even WHO are now urging countries not to use lockdown measures other than temporarily to deal with being unprepared

Actually the WHO say that has been misreported

See below

It is not a backflip, it is not a change in advice,” she said. “What it is a bit of misreporting that has gone on, on the weekend.
“What those reports are based on were a conversation our special envoy, Dr David Nabaro had about the role of lockdowns.
“Lockdowns are basically mass quarantines and governments have got to the stage where they have huge transmission going on and is it not clear exactly where the chains of transmission are, it is a thing that governments have resorted to.
“But right from the start we have said what we would really like to see is a strong tracking, tracing, the community hand washing, mask wearing so that you don’t have to go into lockdown.
“Now a lot of countries have had to go to lockdown but we say do all of the other things to avoid going there, because the economic and social costs are very high.”

Indeed. Unfortunately the compliance with isolating is basically non existent, 18 out of 100 people. Test and trace is doomed to failure when positive people are infecting the community at large. The only solution is to close society to take that opportunity away. So here we are, basically back in March.

@MadameBlobby

People don’t give a fuck just now. They will give a fuck when people they know start getting seriously ill or dying, but by then the damage will be done.

Can you explain this line of thinking further? Do you mean they (and presumably, you, given you are one of the more vocal ADs on MN) won't care too much about the virus until either they or someone close catches it? And suffers badly? Perhaps, in doing so, they could pass it on to other families, causing deaths. Such a lack of personal responsibility is almost criminal.

Local lockdown rules are truly ridiculous and I know many who are not complying and I cannot really blame them. I teach in a busy school, and my students are 16+. Bubble or not, how is it ok for my students to breathe in one direction towards me, for 8 hours a day, in a confined space but then meeting one friend for a coffee indoors is dangerous? Nope.
This is made worse when knowing that according to scientific advisers earlier this week that transmission is more intense in young people who are between 17-21 years old. I don't know what and how these teens socialise outside of school

You know, 64000 people died in January alone. Of the flu. In 2018. Hospitals overwhelmed. No one noticed because we didn't decide-on top of that-to plunge the country into a recession thereby increasing poverty, domestic abuse, suicide etc. We didn't close schools, cancel exams, imprison students and care home residents, separate families and encourage people to snitch on each other like East Germany. We didn't destroy whole sectors of society irreparably, ride roughshod over our hard sought after freedom, human rights and civil liberties. To say the cure has been worse than the ill is a massive understatement

Very good post @Loustew12

It's worrying that so many people are not going to comply with the guidelines. I understand why people are fed up with all the restrictions, but if the transmission rates aren't slowed down we will see hospitals overwhelmed

Overwhelmed like last time you mean - when NHS Nightingale wasn’t even needed?

The Nightingales can't be staffed without taking staff from other areas - that means clinics closing.

Just reposting this:-

I've lifted this from the daily numbers thread.

"This from the critical care team at Aintree Hospital (in Liverpool for non-Nw people)...

1/This account was created in the summer purely to celebrate good news stories and positive feedback about our unit. We were proud of our team and how they had responded to unprecedented challenges in the first wave of COVID. Criticism should not be anonymous and is not our role.
2/Sadly we find ourselves doing COVID again and in the centre of national discussions.
•The current situation on ICU is not normal.
•Our standard capacity for ventilated patients is full, we are coping by expanding again to other areas and using non critical care staff
3/•It is not caused by other respiratory viruses. Flu is not the cause of the current situation.
•What happens out in the city or country is decided by politicians and how we all choose to behave.
•In hospital we deal with the consequences of those actions without judgement.

4/•Our patients are not people expected to die soon. The average age of ICU admissions with COVID in the UK is 59 and most are well beforehand.
•All of our patients caught coronavirus out of hospital.
•Treatments and care have improved.
5/•Sadly people are dying and will die of COVID.
•Those deaths may be you, or if you are young, your relative.
•You cannot simplistically choose between COVID and non COVID care.
6/•Ignoring COVID does not mean other work can just happen. We must try and do both. At some point this will not be possible.
•Nightingale hospitals may be helpful but are not the solution to all the problems.
•We are likely to run out of staff before we run out of equipment."

The Nightingales can't be staffed without taking staff from other areas - that means clinics closing.

That still doesn’t take away from the fact that those extra beds weren’t needed - despite hospitals allegedly being overwhelmed.

Also, as @Loustew12 said, why does no one give a damn about the 64,000 flu victims who die each year? I’m sure we could prevent thousands of those deaths too if we all locked ourselves indoors.

@peasoup8

The Nightingales can't be staffed without taking staff from other areas - that means clinics closing.

That still doesn’t take away from the fact that those extra beds weren’t needed - despite hospitals allegedly being overwhelmed.

They were needed. That's why we had 70,000 excess deaths in three months.

@Loustew12

Even WHO are now urging countries not to use lockdown measures other than temporarily to deal with being unprepared. They don't work. The effects of lockdown are more harmful than the virus itself. That is patently obvious to anyone with half a brain. You know, 64000 people died in January alone. Of the flu. In 2018. Hospitals overwhelmed. No one noticed because we didn't decide-on top of that-to plunge the country into a recession thereby increasing poverty, domestic abuse, suicide etc. We didn't close schools, cancel exams, imprison students and care home residents, separate families and encourage people to snitch on each other like East Germany. We didn't destroy whole sectors of society irreparably, ride roughshod over our hard sought after freedom, human rights and civil liberties. To say the cure has been worse than the ill is a massive understatement

One issue with this is we are at 65,000 excess deaths with all the measures in place. Without them it would be higher.

@peasoup8

You know, 64000 people died in January alone. Of the flu. In 2018. Hospitals overwhelmed. No one noticed because we didn't decide-on top of that-to plunge the country into a recession thereby increasing poverty, domestic abuse, suicide etc. We didn't close schools, cancel exams, imprison students and care home residents, separate families and encourage people to snitch on each other like East Germany. We didn't destroy whole sectors of society irreparably, ride roughshod over our hard sought after freedom, human rights and civil liberties. To say the cure has been worse than the ill is a massive understatement

Very good post @Loustew12

Good totally made up post.

Neighbours son, early 40s, no other health conditions, young children, just died after 2 weeks of Covid.

Those flouting the rules purposefully and for no good reason. This is what happens.

@toxtethOgradyUSA

"All you arseholes not complying are just making it longer until the rest of us that are can see our families." Littleposh - why do you and your ilk feel the need to permanently resort to insults? Do start swearing at people in RL when they have a different opinion to yours?

, it's just a part of speech that I happen to use regularly. I would probably be more insulting in real life if someone was purposely putting others at risk and making my quality of life poorer. I don't feel the need to argue with everything I don't agree with, I am open to all ideas and frequently change my mind halfway through threads on here after seeing other points of view. This is personal though. It is keeping my teenage dds from their friends and family and seriously affecting their mental health. It's keeping us all from my niece and nephew which is heartbreaking. It's stopping me accessing support from my closest people at a time when my child is in deep distress and hurting herself. Directly because of the impact of this mess on her mental health. But as long as the selfish parts of society keep doing whatever they want and putting themselves first, we'll keep struggling on, hoping to make it through this

And here is a clearer table with the total deaths from influenza for 2018-2018

15,969 deaths over the whole season.

You know, 64000 people died in January alone. Of the flu. In 2018. Hospitals overwhelmed. No one noticed because we didn't decide-on top of that-to plunge the country into a recession thereby increasing poverty, domestic abuse, suicide etc.

The entire excess winter deaths didn't exceed this figure for 2017-2018.

You have a seriously weird social circle

They aren't my entire social circle, they're just the people I've chosen to see.

I could see friends etc, but because I want to see my mum and sisters, I've chosen not to.

I genuinely don’t know anyone following them anymore. I’m in Manchester and we haven’t had really any sort of lift since March.
By anyone I mean all my family, all my friends and my friends friends. Every single person in my office. Genuinely don’t know one soul.

But people don't want to wear a mask, and they don't want to practice proper social distancing, and they don't want to isolate once they have tested positive, and they want to attend marches, and parties, and jam up close together unmasked in great numbers shouting and drinking and protesting. What the WHO is suggesting requires the public to wear masks, practice social distancing, isolate and get tested when unwell, and for the country to have proper testing facilities and a functioning track and trace system in place - in the absence of all the above, restrictions on socialising and movement are necessary
This.

I'm fed up of additional restrictions and want to see family, but what this situation has shown me is that people with half a GCSE between them think reading shit on Facebook makes them more knowledgeable than people who've dedicated their lives to an area of scientific research.

I'm fed up with seeing people sharing posts full of conspiracy theories, why they're threatening to sue a supermarket for mentioning face coverings because you don't have to wear one if you're exempt and as 'they can't ask for proof without breaki the law then what are they going to do', why they are mixing with lots of groups, all with a healthy amount of 'sheeple' and 'wake up' for good measure.

Even when we first went into lockdown, there were countless threads that could be summed up as 'AIBU to do this thing that we have been told not to, but I'm so special don't you know, the rules don't apply to me'

The government have handled this situation awfully, but the pandemic has also highlighted there's a lot of selfish idiots out there who always think they're exempt from anything they don't like.

Op the trouble is lock downs cost livelihoods and close businesses for many. If you prefer them I assume this won’t impact you.

I know no one can convince you but I would prefer to avoid further damage as above.

Maybe you are N London. Apparently here in S cases are lower.