I'm calling it - people aren't complying.

[TheFormattingIsWrong]

Local lockdowns aren't working. The North has proven that. Why would it be different in London or anywhere else for that matter? People have stopped complying. They did it in March when it was implied by Bojo that it was going to be a 3 month thing, but as it has become abundantly clear that that this is going to be a way of living until there is a vaccine, and there is no guarantee on a vaccine, people have just said sod it then, I'm not living that way.

I won't be complying. I'll be continuing to see my mum and my sisters. I'd obey it to the letter if it was a 2 week circuit breaker, but as it's clear we're going to have to live this way until at least next Spring, no, I won't be complying.

And for those who say "oh well that's why cases are going up" - until this government kicks itself up the arse and gets a functioning test and trace system in place, they always would anyway. Either it's lockdown or it's cases rising. And most of us aren't prepared to live without seeing family or friends (yes, indoors!) until Spring.

Seriously, there are some really selfish people around.

The hospitals are filling up again and we are only in mid October.

Some people just blithely ignore what ICU staff and other people who know are saying.

I wish it were ethical to make these idiots sign a declaration saying they won't take a hospital bed should they need it.

Tougher laws are needed. I'd much rather see people who 'won't comply' fined than have my taxes go up.

I’ll keep on being my version of sensible but I will see DMum and DDad, because they really need and want me to, they are aware of the risks. My DDad deteriorated in lockdown, mentally and physically, and poor mum had to deal with it alone. It isn’t happening again. And I’m not attempting to stop my teenage DS from going out with friends, you are only in sixth form for 2 years and he needs to live a little.

I would comply if lock down applied to schools too. Ridiculous to close businesses putting people's livelihoods and homes at risk whilst schoolchildren, teens and teachers continue to mix freely 5 days a week.

@Bluebellbike

But if you agree that a full lockdown works, why do you not agree that doing as much as we can is better than doing nothing? Surely if we want the kids to go to school, we should lock down more in the other parts of life, not less?

Leave the bloody schools out of it, they need to be open!

Tougher laws are needed. I'd much rather see people who 'won't comply' fined than have my taxes go up.

Well that's already in place.

They didn't deal with anything difficult in ICUs before Covid??

That is an awful response. ICU staff do deal with awful situations all the time. Supporting people at their most fragile and vulnerable. Supporting people when they are dying. Supporting relatives of dying patients. It’s hard to imagine how hard that is. The impact of Covid on this is immense.

Watch this to get a sense of it and then come back to us;

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000j7wf/critical-inside-intensive-care-critical-coronavirus-in-intensive-care

We should be absolutely grateful that there are people willing to put themselves through this trauma to help any one of us that needs it. And that can be ANYONE! Even you Borntohula! Car accident. Fall downstairs. Etc.

[quote Eckhart]@Bluebellbike

But if you agree that a full lockdown works, why do you not agree that doing as much as we can is better than doing nothing? Surely if we want the kids to go to school, we should lock down more in the other parts of life, not less?[/quote]
The current lock down proposals are not evidence based. Government advisors agree that it is not enough to reduce the R rate. Businesses and livelihoods will be at great risk for action which is not going to work. With regard to schools, children are known to frequently carry the virus asymptomatically so it is inevitable that soon there will be many teachers testing positive, meaning schools probably won't be open much longer in any case. We have to accept that this virus is going to be around for a long time. We can't shut everything down indefinitely, and a 2 week circuit breaker is not going to solve it.

I’ve been in an area with no house hold mixing for about 3 weeks. I know for a fact that no one I know has been treating it the same way as March. My area recently had all hospitality closed too. People just meet In homes now - what’s the point!

After Cummings/10pm curfew etc etc it just doesn’t make sense and people get put off complying.

@Bluebellbike

Yes, I know all that. But I don't understand why people feel that means we might as well break the rules. Surely we ought to overdo the rules?

[quote Eckhart]@Bluebellbike

Yes, I know all that. But I don't understand why people feel that means we might as well break the rules. Surely we ought to overdo the rules?[/quote]
I think people are disregarding the rules because they do not believe the restrictions will help the situation. The fact that the experts are saying that even the most restrictive tier rules are not going to work is not going to help people decide to abide by them. The two week circuit breaker should have been started weeks ago when the furlough scheme still had weeks to run.

Witty and Co think the current tier system is a complete waste of time. All the scientists are in favour of circuit breakers.

Incidentally I am not breaking the rules. I am carrying on just as I was before lock down eased in September, except I do go to the pub occasionally now. I don't party or meet groups of friends. I have a social bubble with one family member and go to work as I'm an essential worker am cannot work from home.

'Telling the PP who didn't go and comfort her grieving relative that she made a choice and that it doesn't make her morally superior, when we had all been told this was what we all had to do to stop 1000s more deaths, is so unbelievably vile I can't understand how anyone who supports that view can claim they aren't supremely selfish.'

We're adults. In the end our own moral judgments are between us and -- God, or whatever other abstract metaphysically ultimate entity you prefer. I wouldn't criticise this poster. But, personally, I would make a different choice, on the basis of an ethical position.

What Boris and co say isn't morally correct simply because they say it, or even because they assert it as law. We can all think of examples of societies where people have been bound, according to internal legal and ethical codes, to do things that most of us regard, outside that society, as reprehensible.

Following the rules implies nothing more than that you're following the rules. It doesn't entail anything the morality or good sense of the rules.

For that you have to think for yourself.

I still don't know anyone in RL who has had it. Nor have my work colleagues. And I'm following the rules, loosely.

People don’t give a fuck just now.
They will give a fuck when people they know start getting seriously ill or dying, but by then the damage will be done.

People don’t give a fuck just now.
They will give a fuck when people they know start getting seriously ill or dying, but by then the damage will be done.

Snore. Snore. Snore. Snore.

For how long has that been said? Far too long - and we're seeing more people not giving a fuck. Not less. That should tell you something.

To be honest I kind of don't blame you for not complying. There are some people who have a family members who live on their own and need the company of others, I'm moving out for the first time with my daughter and dread to think of the idea of not being able to see my sister or my best friend or my daughter to not see her grandparents or dad. It's a hard one also if you're co parenting. Mine and my daughter's dad share custody and the idea of her spending 2 weeks away from me is utterly hard. Unless someone knows if the rules around co-parenting have changed?? Anyway yeah no idea what to do, will try my best comply but only seems right to if the government actually say we are going full lockdown like in April. It all seems confusing with this teir 2 nonsense.

@pontypridd

*People don’t give a fuck just now. They will give a fuck when people they know start getting seriously ill or dying, but by then the damage will be done.*

Snore. Snore. Snore. Snore.

For how long has that been said? Far too long - and we're seeing more people not giving a fuck. Not less. That should tell you something.

I don’t get what the “snore” is in aid of?

Come back and tell me how people still won’t be giving a fuck when 1000 people a day are dying including their friends and relatives.

Just wanted to add, although I'm in two minds about complying. I am worried of the effects of COVID-19. My sister had it in March and she has lost her sense of smell since. There are also a lot of people who are experiencing symptoms of the virus, months after having it. Including forums of the thousands of people who have lost their sense of smell and taste. Really scary to think about, not complying risks anyone getting it and potentially having long lasting side effects. Food for thought.

There is an expectation of a huge surge of cases of Parkinson's disease, as followed the Spanish Flu apparently, that is indicated by these ongoing neurological symptoms.

@pontypridd

*People don’t give a fuck just now. They will give a fuck when people they know start getting seriously ill or dying, but by then the damage will be done.*

Snore. Snore. Snore. Snore.

For how long has that been said? Far too long - and we're seeing more people not giving a fuck. Not less. That should tell you something.

It's not a question of more people not giving a fuck, but more people becoming ill and more people dying. The statistics demonstrate that that is indeed happening. At some point that will hit closer to home for at least some of the people who don't give a fuck. If you were one of them, what would your reaction be?

@TheFormattingIsWrong

So what about all the peopletheysee? Are they prepared to accept the consequences?

As I've already said, they don't see anyone.

So the only people you see are people who are happy to accept the consequences of you deliberately exposing yourself and them to the potential for serious illness and death, yet none of them see anyone else? You have a seriously weird social circle. Alternatively, or course, you're bullshitting.

If I were in an area that prevented mixing bxt households, I would avoid indoor activities but I absolutely would be meeting people in outdoor settings. The risk is so low and we need some sort of semblance of normality here, folks.