I'm calling it - people aren't complying.

[TheFormattingIsWrong]

Local lockdowns aren't working. The North has proven that. Why would it be different in London or anywhere else for that matter? People have stopped complying. They did it in March when it was implied by Bojo that it was going to be a 3 month thing, but as it has become abundantly clear that that this is going to be a way of living until there is a vaccine, and there is no guarantee on a vaccine, people have just said sod it then, I'm not living that way.

I won't be complying. I'll be continuing to see my mum and my sisters. I'd obey it to the letter if it was a 2 week circuit breaker, but as it's clear we're going to have to live this way until at least next Spring, no, I won't be complying.

And for those who say "oh well that's why cases are going up" - until this government kicks itself up the arse and gets a functioning test and trace system in place, they always would anyway. Either it's lockdown or it's cases rising. And most of us aren't prepared to live without seeing family or friends (yes, indoors!) until Spring.

I am in a Wales lockdown area and can’t have my support bubble even as my daughter lives in the neighbouring county (I’m right on the boundary) I teach in a school where 2/3 of the catchment is in the neighbouring county. I’m mixing with hundreds of children (and staff) from my daughter’s county every weekday. I completely refuse to believe that me having a coffee with her - even outside - would suddenly be murderous.

Well I comply because I'm trying my best. I do however think the rules are nonsensical.

On one hand we can't mix with another household indoors.

On the other I run a small childcare seeing. 14 children, 3 members of staff...really tiny. In our setting we naturally cross 24 other bubbles...just because of siblings and our own children. These are only the ones I know about!

Like PP I dont think people not complying is causing the spread...

@TheFormattingIsWrong

I agree with you touch and hugging is very important. Unfortunately I have now 4 relatives that I will not be able to touch and hug anymore because they died of covid .

I take the view the virus killed them , not the government and also I am pretty sick of politics being used in this pandemic and social media “experts”

We are all entitled to our opinions. Does not make them right though . It’s all to easy to criticise when you are safe behind your keyboard.

OP, I am in pretty much the same work situation as your family members. Some sectors have been comprehensively shafted.

If there is any further lockdown, I will not be complying. I complied with the March one only because there was nothing open (and even then, I saw family/friends most days).

The people I see have all done their own risk assessments and will not be complying either.

As for "the hospitals will be overwhelmed": well, I've got a medical condition and have now had three appointments cancelled "because of Covid", when there has been next to no Covid where I live, and the hospitals have been empty (I had to take one of the DC to A&E, and we were the only people there on a Saturday night - normally a 4-5 hour wait). I've been prescribed Tramadol over the phone instead of being seen by anyone.

I'm sick of lockdowns, and scaremongering bollocks, and all the rest of it. And personally, I'd rather catch Covid than Norovirus anyway.

Just thinking about it... It's a positive sign that we are now allowed to start "I'm not complying" posts. I started one during the first lockdown, saying only that I was not going to comply, and MNHQ deleted it because it was apparently "triggering" .

So the very fact that we are now allowed to say this without being censored is a step forward.

Let’s hope you or a member of your family needs a hospital bed.

Sorry, the infections in homes being most influential is just utter bollocks.

cardibach - so Chris Whitty is telling fibs . Why would he do this?
Please don't tell me he's in on the Great Reset conspiracy.
Or is there another conspiracy you subscribe to?

There's no point getting angry at people refusing to comply.
The government lost all credibility and authority when Dominic Cummings went on his travels and got away with it, they lost it when they let students back to uni and then those institutions deprived them of their human rights by locking them in and surveilling them.
I'm in the South West and we had low numbers of Covid until the students came back.
Don't blame students. Blame Boris Johnson and his incompetent, corrupt, greedy government.
I'll comply because it suits me and I want to be able to go out to work.
I mightn't comply to the letter if it doesn't suit me because I'm careful and I trust myself and my actions more than I do this shit show of a government.

@MH1111

IronLawOfGeometricProgression

Exponential is a problem if it kills everyone it infects. It doesn’t. The vast majority of people have nothing to worry about.
A very small % need to shield.
The majority of those don’t want the younger generations to have to lockdown for their sake

No.

Exponential is a problem because it keeps growing.

How many times would you like to double April's 1000 deaths a day? 2000 deaths a day? 4000 deaths a day? 8000 deaths a day? It's currently doubling about three times a month.

April and May's carnage of 70,000 excess deaths was caused by 8% of us having it. 90% of us are still susceptible to it.

There are teenagers in hospital with it right now struggling to breathe. I don't want that for my kids or yours.

2 week circuit breaker wont fix it, at some point we have to go back to normal and then numbers will rise again.

@AuntieLydia

Sorry, the infections in homes being most influential is just utter bollocks.

cardibach - so Chris Whitty is telling fibs . Why would he do this?
Please don't tell me he's in on the Great Reset conspiracy.
Or is there another conspiracy you subscribe to?

Oh fuck off. It’s not a conspiracy theory. Don’t be so fucking insulting. Whitty is (as before) saying what he’s paid to say. So answer me. These in household infections, where people pass them round their family. Where is the first infection coming from? Which infection is the most influential in causing the others? And on the other points I mentioned which you ignored to insult my intelligence, how does Whitty know how many infections are being passed in schools with so many asymptomatic youngsters and even those with symptoms not always able to get tests?

@lurker101

I hope all those deciding not to comply realise that’s they are increasing the risk of transmission to those they are choosing to see and are happy to live with potential consequences. I will not be breaking the rules as I couldn’t live with the consequences. In my view it’s many people deciding they are exempt from the rules that is elongating this (alongside the obvious issues with test track and trace).

I'm happy too thanks.

I complied last lockdown and my elderly parents, who live a three hour drive from me, both became so ill with non-covid related stuff that they could easily have died without me ever seeing them again and being able to say goodbye. Thankfully that didn't happen and they hung on by the skin of their teeth.

That isn't a chance I am willing to take again, lockdown or not.

The main personal memories that I take away from the last lockdown are of losing my job, and very nearly my parents too. I'm afraid I just can't stop it colouring how I am able to view the restrictions. I can't view them favourably.

This lockdown dilemma isn’t exclusive to the UK, France called a state of emergency. I am bored of working from home, I’m bored not being to socialise etc and I count my blessings that I can work from home and I’m in secure profession. However, I won’t be breaking the rules, I won’t live with responsibility of potentially passing the Virus on to vulnerable groups, just because I’m a bit fed up. But , you do you

@Tadpolesandfroglets

2 week circuit breaker wont fix it, at some point we have to go back to normal and then numbers will rise again.

Two week circuit breaker in which the government bothered to set up effective test, trace, isolate instead of just giving billions to their mates would solve it. Or get it enough under control that no more lockdowns were needed anyway.

Surely the only way forward is sensible measures to reduce transmission, no lockdowns as they don't work, treating people as adults and providing lots and lots of accurate information so they can make good judgements. i.e. don't tell us half the recent deaths have been in the under 80s. Tell us over the last 7 days, the age profile of all those who have died, their ethnicities, if they significant underlying conditions, if they have contracted covid in hospital or health / care setting. Otherwise I am going to dismiss this as scaremongering ...

How stupid are people refusing to comply? Do you not realise it will just go on longer? Ffs, pull together people.

@Flaxmeadow you have spoken complete sense in all the threads, spelt it out very clearly for the masses.

Unfortunately, you can't argue with stupid, and it is so clear that many of our fellow countrymen have the IQ of a fucking sponge.

@MadameMeursault

How stupid are people refusing to comply? Do you not realise it will just go on longer? Ffs, pull together people.

So...can you list to one local lockdown that has resulted in lower rates and the area coming out of lockdown completely?

To clarify - I’m following the rules. I dint think local lockdowns work, but I’m following the rules. I support a circuit breaker. I think people are talking bollocks when they say schools aren’t causing a problem.

@AuntieLydia

Sorry, the infections in homes being most influential is just utter bollocks.

cardibach - so Chris Whitty is telling fibs . Why would he do this?
Please don't tell me he's in on the Great Reset conspiracy.
Or is there another conspiracy you subscribe to?

Did Chris Whitty not also say tier 3 restrictions alone won’t be enough? So maybe it is simplistic to just say infections rising due to rule breaking?

Unfortunately I think that some people are only going to comply when they see the results of not complying. They probably will eventually shut down businesses again if cases carry on increasing, deaths will rise rapidly, and probably nobody will be able to get any health treatment for anything unless it's an emergency. Even then they might not get it.

@Carrotgirl87

*@Flaxmeadow* you have spoken complete sense in all the threads, spelt it out very clearly for the masses.

Unfortunately, you can't argue with stupid, and it is so clear that many of our fellow countrymen have the IQ of a fucking sponge.

Dismissing people who disagree with you as stupid is the behaviour of someone who can’t argue their point very well.

I think people should follow the rules but I understand the arguments being raised and consider them, before just dismissing people as “stupid”.

I've lifted this from the daily numbers thread.

"This from the critical care team at Aintree Hospital (in Liverpool for non-Nw people)...

1/This account was created in the summer purely to celebrate good news stories and positive feedback about our unit. We were proud of our team and how they had responded to unprecedented challenges in the first wave of COVID. Criticism should not be anonymous and is not our role.
2/Sadly we find ourselves doing COVID again and in the centre of national discussions.
•The current situation on ICU is not normal.
•Our standard capacity for ventilated patients is full, we are coping by expanding again to other areas and using non critical care staff
3/•It is not caused by other respiratory viruses. Flu is not the cause of the current situation.
•What happens out in the city or country is decided by politicians and how we all choose to behave.
•In hospital we deal with the consequences of those actions without judgement.

4/•Our patients are not people expected to die soon. The average age of ICU admissions with COVID in the UK is 59 and most are well beforehand.
•All of our patients caught coronavirus out of hospital.
•Treatments and care have improved.
5/•Sadly people are dying and will die of COVID.
•Those deaths may be you, or if you are young, your relative.
•You cannot simplistically choose between COVID and non COVID care.
6/•Ignoring COVID does not mean other work can just happen. We must try and do both. At some point this will not be possible.
•Nightingale hospitals may be helpful but are not the solution to all the problems.
•We are likely to run out of staff before we run out of equipment."

I was particularly struck by the fact that they mention running out of staff and this - •What happens out in the city or country is decided by politicians and how we all choose to behave.

I don't have any answers, I don't know whether a circuit break is the right choice (I'd suggest we will need more than one to carry us over the winter months). It is all shit.

I'm not following it and don't really care if I spread it and implement herd theory on my own.

We can't go on like this forever. Even if they get the rate down, it will go back up once things are opened and then we will be locked back down again.

If enough people don't follow it hopefully the government will realise there is no point crippling businesses.

I was referring to the people arguing with flax very well laid out, sensible and clear explanations. The people arguing with them, on more threads than this, were indeed, stupid. I could see that by their lack of logical, sensible and clear responses.

Thanks for your comment though, even though I wasn't talking to you.