I'm calling it - people aren't complying.

[TheFormattingIsWrong]

Local lockdowns aren't working. The North has proven that. Why would it be different in London or anywhere else for that matter? People have stopped complying. They did it in March when it was implied by Bojo that it was going to be a 3 month thing, but as it has become abundantly clear that that this is going to be a way of living until there is a vaccine, and there is no guarantee on a vaccine, people have just said sod it then, I'm not living that way.

I won't be complying. I'll be continuing to see my mum and my sisters. I'd obey it to the letter if it was a 2 week circuit breaker, but as it's clear we're going to have to live this way until at least next Spring, no, I won't be complying.

And for those who say "oh well that's why cases are going up" - until this government kicks itself up the arse and gets a functioning test and trace system in place, they always would anyway. Either it's lockdown or it's cases rising. And most of us aren't prepared to live without seeing family or friends (yes, indoors!) until Spring.

OP the breathtaking irony is at the start of this thread when people mentioned we need to stop the NHS from being overwhelmed you stated you would happily sign a disclaimer waving your right to any treatment and "Where do I sign." (As if.)

Then a few pages in you announce you are awaiting treatment yourself for a medical procedure and your husband requires ongoing monitoring for his own illness. Both of which have been cancelled.

It's this level of stupidity that really, really gets to me. Nobody wants the NHS to be overwhelmed so that treatments can still take place for all - not just Covid patients. If over the Winter period hospitals just get full of Covid patients the backlog of people waiting to be seen for other ailments will just grow and grow and you are one of those people who want/need treatment but will not follow the legislation either. So I'm taking it you don't actually want to waiver your right to treatment after all then?

Totally agree. I won’t be complying either - lost a relative recently and it just brought it home how much time we lost due to these stupid restrictions for a disease less infectious than flu.

@GrumpyHoonMain So you think that by not complying it will make the virus go away and no one will die?

It is far more infectious than flu- we have a vaccine for flu.

I despair at these posts.

Thanks so much for your amazing, selfless behaviour.

The thing is that yes, if I passed covid onto my father (or whoever) and he died, yes I would feel bad.

But I would also feel bad if I'd passed flu, norovirus or chickenpox (he hasn't had it) on to him and he'd died.

Someone please tell me what the difference is, on a personal level.

If you had vomiting and diarrhoea would you not stay away from him? We didn't go to my mum for Christmas last year as my kids' stomachs were ropey. Only thing is you've no signs to help you out for covid. And I'm not judging, all your choice. I haven't seen mum in 5 myhs now

Well the evidence is that things could end up like Wuhan or north Italy. People may perceive the risk as small, but potential consequences are huge. Think how much time and effort goes into preventing terrorism.

Evidence that lockdown works: Melbourne, Singapore.

Other strategies: Japan, s. Korea.
In any case lockdown/circuit breaker properly supported and enforced v likely lowers cases and buys more time for better testing.

[quote JinglingHellsBells]@TheFormattingIsWrong

FFS- lockdown isn't working because people are not following the rules.

It's that simple.

Are you crazy?[/quote]
This. With Jingling Hells Bells on.

We need two weeks to get T&T working properly ~because the previous six months don't count for shit~" I'd comply.

We will never get T & T working because it is impossible to do that with the virus in the community. It is a colossal waste of money.

The only way it would work is if you had actually got a contained area with the virus. We don't. And we won't.

Give it one second of thought, and just see how it is impossible to track and trace one person and all their contacts in time, it is mathematically impossible now.

The ONLY time it would have worked would have been at patient zero. And the only countries where it did work already had the systems up and ready for those first patients.

We really need to give up on the idea that this is ever going to eliminate the virus, or even control it to the levels that people expect

It's this level of stupidity that really, really gets to me. Nobody wants the NHS to be overwhelmed so that treatments can still take place for all - not just Covid patients. If over the Winter period hospitals just get full of Covid patients the backlog of people waiting to be seen for other ailments will just grow and grow and you are one of those people who want/need treatment but will not follow the legislation either. So I'm taking it you don't actually want to waiver your right to treatment after all then?

What in God's name are you banging on about? I said I would waiver my right to covid treatment.

The other treatments have not been cancelled because the NHS is overwhelmed, they have been cancelled because the NHS is prioritising covid to the detriment of everything else. Which according to a lot of people on this thread will continue to be the case until there is a vaccine.

Tbh, I do clinical telephone triage for non life threatening 999 calls and over the past 3 months everyone I’ve talked to with a member of their family suffering from Covid like symptoms has faked amazement when I’ve told them the whole household needs to self isolate. I think the vast majority of people are saying they will self isolate but are not.
We are very quiet in our area both with Covid and non Covid calls. I understand 111 is also fairly quiet for this time of the year too.

Thanks @SisyphusAndTheRockOfUntidiness

I wish all these non compliers could be named, shamed and put in the stocks in their towns.

I am fucking sick of them.

My mum has not been out of her house for 6 months (she's chosen to shield as she is in her 90s and in a high risk area, even though she is fit and active. ) I have seen her on 2 occasions and I live 350 miles away.

People on this thread who are doing what they want are the absolute dregs of society.

@Namenic

Well the evidence is that things could end up like Wuhan or north Italy. People may perceive the risk as small, but potential consequences are huge. Think how much time and effort goes into preventing terrorism.

Evidence that lockdown works: Melbourne, Singapore.

Other strategies: Japan, s. Korea.
In any case lockdown/circuit breaker properly supported and enforced v likely lowers cases and buys more time for better testing.

This isn't a lockdown though is it? It's keep (almost) everything open, just stop people meeting their loved ones.

That's the problem. It achieves nothing but resentment and distress.

So yes a want to go see your mate inside their house shouldn’t trump the above

Well that's not what I want. What I want is to see my mum and sisters who are struggling with their MH.

The other treatments have not been cancelled because the NHS is overwhelmed, they have been cancelled because the NHS is prioritising covid to the detriment of everything else.

@TheFormattingIsWrong
I think you need to read what you have written and think again.

Do you not get it at all?

It's the same bloody thing!

They are cancelling treatments for cancer and other things because they need the beds for Covid.

And people like you are possibly actually causing deaths, indirectly, as cancer treatments and diagnosis are being postponed.

If you carry on mixing, you and the people you meet could spread the virus . You and they can be asymptomatic.

Just get a grip so we can all get out of this mess sooner.

Are you one of those who won’t self isolate if you test positive and / or give false details when visiting restaurants and the like?

Not at all. I've had covid symptoms twice and both times I self isolated immediately and got tested, and stayed isolated until my results were negative. On the rare occasion I've been to a restaurant, I've always left my details.

Sorry if that doesn't fit your narrative.

All you arseholes not complying are just making it longer until the rest of us that are can see our families. I won't bother appealing to your better nature as you clearly don't have one

They are cancelling treatments for cancer and other things because they need the beds for Covid.

But they aren't. At the time my own appointment was cancelled there were no covid patients at all at any of the three hospitals near my house.

Well that's not what I want. What I want is to see my mum and sisters who are struggling with their MH.

So do I love! Mine is 93 and 5 hrs away. I cannot see her as she is in Tier 2 and it's been spread by people (like you) not obeying the rules.

You need to stop being so selfish.

What I want is to see my mum and sisters who are struggling with their MH

Will the increased spread of the virus to those they know and love improve their mental health? Or are the people they know and love immune?

@Littleposh

All you arseholes not complying are just making it longer until the rest of us that are can see our families. I won't bother appealing to your better nature as you clearly don't have one

This. I'm fucking sick of it.

You need to stop being so selfish.

Sorry but if there is a risk of my sister committing suicide, nothing will keep me from her.

@TheFormattingIsWrong Before you come to a forum and start making comments, get yourself informed.

The beds were kept open IN CASE they were needed.

I have friends whose treatment for all sorts was delayed as a) their consultants caught Covid and there was a backlog of appts b) the depts were CLOSED for 8 months.

You really do need to do some reading and educate yourself on the facts.

Your sister needs to get help from professionals.

Will the increased spread of the virus to those they know and love improve their mental health? Or are the people they know and love immune?

We're a tiny family and the people they know and love are me and my son. And our chance of death or serious illness is minimal, and we don't mix with anyone else anyway. We don't even go to the supermarket.

Your sister needs to get help from professionals.

She can't, because thanks to covid all her appointments were cancelled and she cannot be admitted to a psych ward.

Sorry but if there is a risk of my sister committing suicide, nothing will keep me from her

Even in full lockdown, essential care visits were allowed. Stop being dramatic.

Ah ok - so any NHS appointments for non life threatening conditions were cancelled just in case beds were needed for covid patients then. That's great, that makes loads of logical sense.

I didn't even need a bed for my appointment. There were no covid patients in the hospital at the time it was scheduled. My consultant was not off sick. So why could I not have been seen?