I'm calling it - people aren't complying.

[TheFormattingIsWrong]

Local lockdowns aren't working. The North has proven that. Why would it be different in London or anywhere else for that matter? People have stopped complying. They did it in March when it was implied by Bojo that it was going to be a 3 month thing, but as it has become abundantly clear that that this is going to be a way of living until there is a vaccine, and there is no guarantee on a vaccine, people have just said sod it then, I'm not living that way.

I won't be complying. I'll be continuing to see my mum and my sisters. I'd obey it to the letter if it was a 2 week circuit breaker, but as it's clear we're going to have to live this way until at least next Spring, no, I won't be complying.

And for those who say "oh well that's why cases are going up" - until this government kicks itself up the arse and gets a functioning test and trace system in place, they always would anyway. Either it's lockdown or it's cases rising. And most of us aren't prepared to live without seeing family or friends (yes, indoors!) until Spring.

@Jaxhog

I won't be complying.

Well, thank you. Know that this means you are condemning me to a shielded life with a strong prospect of dying. I hope you are proud of yourself.

Enjoy the national lockdown too.

Same here.. but no point in arguing with the terminally stupid.

These are the people who will achieve the EXACT opposite of their desire. To 'live a normal life' because this type of behaviour will not only extend it but make it much much worse than last. Time.

What is it that people can't understand about a Virus ? It doesn't matter if it's Covid, or a Flu strain that we have no vaccine for.. it doesn't even make a difference if it's the fucking measles.. (if we didn't already have a vaccine) they are ALL still Viruses which have minor, long term or fatal effects on a significant percentage of the population.

So those who suffer the 'major' or 'fatal' side effects will require hospital space. That will impact on hospitals who already fall to their knees in the winter when significant seasonal respiratory illnesses kick in. There simply won't be room for everyone. !

Do people not understand that last time we were in Early Spring going into summer when Viruses cannot spread as easily as people tend to be outside more.

LAST TIME WE WERE IN MARCH ONWARDS. THIS TIME WE ARE IN OCTOBER ONWARDS. BIG BIG DIFFERENCE FROM A HOSPITAL CAPACITY POINT OF VIEW.

It doesn't just kill the elderly . I have lost a healthy 42 yr old neighbour and a 51 yr old colleague. Neither had underlying health issues. One was a tiny bit over weight.

To all of you who are 'fed up' I really hope you are not one of those lying on a trolley in a corridor , waiting for treatment that will never come because of the sheer numbers caused by 'people who were bored of it'. I hope you don't have to watch your partner/child/parent in that situation either.

Because your selfish behaviour would have caused this.

What is it that people can't understand about a Virus ? It doesn't matter if it's Covid, or a Flu strain that we have no vaccine for.. it doesn't even make a difference if it's the fucking measles.. (if we didn't already have a vaccine) they are ALL still Viruses which have minor, long term or fatal effects on a significant percentage of the population.

So if it’s this awful, why am I expected to be around thousands of children everyday? Where we are seeing positive Covid cases?

If the government said ‘look, we ALL have to lockdown as it’s not safe’ then I’d comply.

But apparently it’s not safe, but it’s safe enough for me...because I’m a teacher. So I am allowed to be exposed to as much risk as necessary during the working day. At my job.

i agree and why should i

essex council requested to go into tier two our levels are nowhere near as high as others-we're bing forcedinto something when the numbers dont back it up

Why should they, when a MP can have a test, get on a train to London while waiting for the result, waltz around the Houses of Parliament for a bit, get a positive result, then get back on a train to Scotland,

AND FACE NO POLICE CONSEQUENCES WHATSOEVER?

Why don't people seem to understand that people like me are not just sick of it because we want to have a nice little party with friends. We are sick of it because we have family members and friends whose lives and livelihoods have been decimated. Who will lose their homes. Because we work with service users who are trapped in high rise flats with no gardens and several children. People cannot be expected to live like that, whether it's on and off or not, for months on end.

It really doesn't matter whether "if only people complied it would be fine", because it is fucking obvious that life cannot and does not work that way, not if it is going to be like this for months on end.

If we had mass testing, this situation would not be necessary.

@TheFormattingIsWrong

This is the definition of illogical: people being frustrated at the NHS becoming the covid service, and so engaging in behaviours that will lead to increased covid transmission and even more delays to cancer treatments. How is this helping anyone?

The reason treatments aren't happening is not because staff are overloaded with covid patients, it is because hospitals don't want to allow people into hospital in case they have covid.

My best friend's husband is an oncologist (skin cancer) working in the SE. He is incandescent with rage because half his appointments have been cancelled. He is literally sitting round twiddling his thumbs. He has asked to do home visits. His trust won't let him.

exactly its not the staff deciding this its the bloody trusts saying we cant have people roaming round with possible covid

If I were a teacher I'd be telling everyone to get fucked tbh. Expected to work all day with hundreds of children, no SD, no PPE, but not allowed to visit a family member at home.

Yes, I know it's about minimisation, but it isn't fair, and people can't be expected to comply with it.

I work in the Pathology Dept of a very large hospital somewhere in the North West.. Last week, one of our lab technicians tested positive for Covid and was told to go home and self isolate (this person has since been very poorly). The powers that be sent home three other members of lab staff who had been with this person when she was on her cigarette break, to self isolate.

This lab worker works in a very busy Pathology lab, surrounded by at least 50 other staff. Also, this person's Mother works in the same hospital (in a different dept) and has been in close contact with this person every day leading up to her diagnosis. The Mother was told that she didn't need to go home to isolate as she wasn't symptomatic.

I just don't understand any of it? Why send the three smoking buddies home, none of whom were symptomatic, but no one else from the path lab? I understand that the smoking buddies won't have been wearing masks and the path lab staff should all have been wearing masks and distancing when working. But what about the contact that this woman will have had with other staff members in the staff room on her lunch hour? No one wears a mask on their lunch hour.

And what about her Mother who she spends lots of time with, who works in a dept that deals with VERY vulnerable Haematology patients? Why wasn't she sent home?

Lastly this woman's partner, who she lives with, is an ambulance driver. He was also told that he didn't need to isolate as he wasn't symptomatic.

I'm just so confused with all of it, none of it makes any sense to me.

How on earth are we going to contain this when the safety measures being taken when dealing with our hospital staff are so vague and modifiable.

I know my post is slightly off point. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I don't really blame the people who are saying that they're going to flout the rules, when none of this seems to make any sense.

We need hard and fast rules for everybody. We can't have one set of rules for the general public and another for hospital workers, and yet another for schools and colleges etc etc. Somebody needs to show some leadership skills here and make some cast iron decisions. Otherwise we may as well just forget the lockdowns, the self isolating, the masks, the social distancing, the lot.

I’m not sure any arguments here are being listened to.

I am complying. I will continue to comply until we find a vaccine. It’s really tough, but I do understand that my actions affect everyone else and somewhere down the line my wanting to have a coffee with my brother is going to increase transmission. So I won’t do it. I can still zoom call, like I have done with shielding close relatives.

I do look at people not complying with different eyes like the OP. It’s a shame but for many their own wants trump others needs.

If people won't cooperate with lockdowns, why do you think they are going to comply with test and trace?
We already have false names and addresses being given, all because some idiots feel their "personal freedom" is at risk if the government knows they bought a coffee at Starbucks.

I do think our own stupidity will be what kills off the human race.

do you honestly think the government bears no responsibility here? Why do you think south east Asia has its cases under control?

Because in south east Asia isolation is enforced, whereas in the UK too much is left up to the public's common sense. Which is clearly lacking.

exactly its not the staff deciding this its the bloody trusts saying we cant have people roaming round with possible covid

It's exactly the same with restrictions on labour wards. Nothing to do with the staff being overloaded, they're just trying to minimise the collateral damage. And women labouring alone are collateral damage.

If people won't cooperate with lockdowns, why do you think they are going to comply with test and trace?

They'll have to. No negative covid test, no entry to starbucks/wetherspoons/the office.

Attention seeking behaviour to come on and tell us all. If you’re going to not comply, why don’t you just get on with it rather than announcing it? 🙄

It’s a shame but for many their own wants trump others needs.

Yet again, why is covid the overriding "need" here? What about the needs of those who are at risk from other things?

Everyone agrees SD needs to be around for the forseeable to keep cases down, so effectively we are saying only the needs of those vulnerable to covid matter. Yes?

Attention seeking behaviour to come on and tell us all. If you’re going to not comply, why don’t you just get on with it rather than announcing it?

You're not obliged to read my thread love.

In Asia I think there is a greater sense of community, and a tolerance to just knuckle down even if some freedoms are lost. I think we can learn a lot from Asia.

Also, better management of Covid = greater personal freedom.

All of this ‘I can’t wear a mask’ or ‘I won’t be told I can’t visit my friend’ is just resulting in prolonged restrictions.

I do agree this has been badly managed. I don’t agree that therefore we should just act like children and do whatever we want.

If we had mass testing, this situation would not be necessary.

You don't need mass testing if you have minimum stupidity.The UKs stupid started years ago with the decision to save a few quid by getting rid of it's world beating pandemic planning and has really continued on a downward slope ever since. With the occasional pitstop to take on a bit more fuckwittery with PPE contracts for unsuitable kit, thrice failed "app" developments and a general if-it-hadn't-been-for-the-last-fuckup-I-wouldn't-believe-this-one approach to "managing" Covid.

@Flaxmeadow

Nonsense. If the infection rate is per capita and only 10 people a day are tested, you are going to get a completely different set of results when 1000 people a day are tested

It is worked out by percent.

More than 10 were tested anyway before mass testing, but I'll go along with it.

If 10 people were tested last week and 1 was positive, and then this week 100 are tested and 20 are positive, then it obviously suggests the rate of infection is going up.

Yes but you are still going on the number of those tested. Before testing was so available, there could be literally thousands of symptomatic people but only a fraction getting tested. So you could have 1000 infected people but only 100 getting tested - so it would be one in a hundred whilst the true rate might be much more if more people had the test.

Now you can get a test at the drop of a hat, everyone is getting tested if they have symptoms or "just in case". So all the people who wouldn't have got tested in April are tested now.So there are going to be more positive cases.

@LangClegsInSpace

Interesting how people are quick to point the finger of blame at The North & say how badly Northern people are behaving, how selfish they are etc for not complying with lockdown restrictions, but in the next sentence say that they themselves will not be complying, will be seeing family etc, as they don't want to have to live this way until at least next Spring, there's no guarantee of a vaccine anytime soon, etc etc.

Why on earth would you conclude this is the same set of people?

Fair enough, I should have been clearer. I was referring to the OP.

FWIW, my hospital treatment was cancelled in spring & I was bedbound, partially paralysed, incontinent, & left in dreadful pain for about 4 months as a result. I'm at increased risk of suffering a stroke when my condition isn't adequately controlled. DH had to do just about everything for me. I'd still rather the NHS dealt with the virus.
I consider it a good day when I can cook my own dinner. We were homeless this spring because our LL put our house on the market.
People whining about not being able to go on holiday or out to dinner with friends etc. piss me off, TBH. (Here I am referring to people in general.)

I do agree with the PPs who say this is something we probably just need to wait out. Sometimes life is shit & you just need to get on with it.

I do agree this has been badly managed. I don’t agree that therefore we should just act like children and do whatever we want.

Yes, exactly.

I’m already a criminal and not complying. I won’t be stupid and go out partying or in droves. I WFH, but I need 3 different people for childcare and I will let the DC see their handful of friends from the same school.

We are in tier 2. We shouldn’t be, we have been lumped with a city 50 minutes away that has high levels.

When the WHO are saying deaths are 80% less. And that they don’t support lockdowns as a primary means.

When the Barrington declarations exists.

When Liverpool NHS trust says they are actually 5% LOWER than last year and ministers are lying.

When our trust says most patients are asymptomatic and being treated not for Covid but only tested for it.

When the vaccine makers are trying to shirk liability as even when we do get it it clearly has been rushed.

When all those things completely refute this course of action they can go to buggery.

@IceCreamSummer20

In Asia I think there is a greater sense of community, and a tolerance to just knuckle down even if some freedoms are lost. I think we can learn a lot from Asia.

Also, better management of Covid = greater personal freedom.

All of this ‘I can’t wear a mask’ or ‘I won’t be told I can’t visit my friend’ is just resulting in prolonged restrictions.

I do agree this has been badly managed. I don’t agree that therefore we should just act like children and do whatever we want.

Exactly.

Also when I now know 25 people who have had it and only 1 very elderly fairly unwell person who has died so far. And only 1 actually got quite poorly.

Fair enough, I should have been clearer. I was referring to the OP.

Not sure why as I haven't blamed the North at all

@TheFormattingIsWrong

It’s a shame but for many their own wants trump others needs.

Yet again, why is covid the overriding "need" here? What about the needs of those who are at risk from other things?

Everyone agrees SD needs to be around for the forseeable to keep cases down, so effectively we are saying only the needs of those vulnerable to covid matter. Yes?

Not a good argument. Covid being a novel virus and us having almost no immunity does mean that we have to take its transmission more seriously. Needs include those getting long Covid, dying from Covid, having to shield to not get Covid, having no ICU beds because of Covid, having to divert health staff because of Covid, having to restrict healthcare for others including cancer because being immune suppressed will mean Covid is very serious for them, disruption in schools, workplaces, police and elsewhere from time off with Covid or suspected Covid...

I could go on. The above needs are so serious and so disruptive that if we ignore them they impact far, far more than the ‘just’ the people getting Covid. Read for example about the awful experience of a pregnant woman in Sweden who developed a life threatening condition for her and her baby because she wasn’t getting the care she needed as healthcare and midwives were off sick with Covid because they were told not to wear masks - if simple restrictions were in place that pregnant woman would have got the care she needed as less workers would have been off with Covid.

So many different examples but the ‘needs’ of Covid, are huge - as it is a pandemic, it’s novel, it has a big impact. It’s is much bigger than flu. It is much more transmissible than flu.

So yes a want to go see your mate inside their house shouldn’t trump the above. Especially as it’s perfectly doable and far less risky to meet at a park in the outside or zoom call. No biggie.