I'm calling it - people aren't complying.

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Local lockdowns aren't working. The North has proven that. Why would it be different in London or anywhere else for that matter? People have stopped complying. They did it in March when it was implied by Bojo that it was going to be a 3 month thing, but as it has become abundantly clear that that this is going to be a way of living until there is a vaccine, and there is no guarantee on a vaccine, people have just said sod it then, I'm not living that way.

I won't be complying. I'll be continuing to see my mum and my sisters. I'd obey it to the letter if it was a 2 week circuit breaker, but as it's clear we're going to have to live this way until at least next Spring, no, I won't be complying.

And for those who say "oh well that's why cases are going up" - until this government kicks itself up the arse and gets a functioning test and trace system in place, they always would anyway. Either it's lockdown or it's cases rising. And most of us aren't prepared to live without seeing family or friends (yes, indoors!) until Spring.

@pontypridd

I can't see any Covid deniers on this thread. Nor do I see any selfish cunts.

What I do see are people who've reached the end of blind acceptance. People who are questioning and using their brains.

There are also a few rule followers and mindless sheep that like to point the finger and bleat that everyone who thinks for themselves is a selfish cunt.

Generally though the discussion on here has been quite thought provoking and heart warming. I've found, anyway.

Exactly!

Generally, isn't it considered a good thing to question the decisions taken by governments? Isn't that, indeed, a cornerstone of democratic societies? But now we're supposed to blindly and uncritically follow the ever-changing 'rules' imposed by the government Because Covid?

This is the definition of illogical: people being frustrated at the NHS becoming the covid service, and so engaging in behaviours that will lead to increased covid transmission and even more delays to cancer treatment

@Redolent

What people are annoyed about is cancer screening, certain treatments etc...being put on hold (to try to prevent people mixing etc) much in the same way that dental treatments were put on hold, however one is time sensitive and could be the difference between life and death.

In some cases there seems there was a blanket rule where services were suspended. These people haven’t got the luxury of time and that’s where the frustration lies.

Do we really have no choice over what our government tells us to do, when they are removing basic freedoms?

Most countries that claim to be democracies make it a clear point that the government are our representatives, not our rulers.

@Eckhart

If you're not a covid denier and you accept that it's contagious and deadly, and you don't think the restrictions are working, surely you should be imposing more restrictions on yourself than the government guidelines/rules, because the restrictions being imposed aren't successfully containing the virus.

Yes I am as it happens. I'm not going near pubs or restaurants, I'm avoiding public transport as far as I possibly can, avoiding shops as much as I can ...

It'll basically be down to DM whether we comply with these rules. She's terminally ill and going blind. If she wants her family to carry on visiting we won't be staying away.

Nonsense. If the infection rate is per capita and only 10 people a day are tested, you are going to get a completely different set of results when 1000 people a day are tested

It is worked out by percent.

More than 10 were tested anyway before mass testing, but I'll go along with it.

If 10 people were tested last week and 1 was positive, and then this week 100 are tested and 20 are positive, then it obviously suggests the rate of infection is going up.

@AntiSocialInjusticePacifist

I think it's pretty simple really: I think people should follow the rules to save lives. If people choose not to and get caught by the police we slap their name on a list and when we do the calculations on the healthcare costs for those who suffered and died (and may even require ongoing care going forward, there is evidence to suggest covid may lead to chronic health conditions). Then we slap an extra tax on those who broke the rules, so if they want to take the risk, more power to them, but they shoulder some of the financial cost for the risks that they are taking.

What about those of us who broke the rules so that we could be together following a bereavement. Do we get taxed as well? Are we to get taxed for being in the same house as my dad in order to help him plan his funeral and make his last few weeks as happy for him as we can, by having family get -togethers as per his wishes? Do we get taxed twice? Does he get taxed too, given that he is hosting?

So why are Labour calling for a full lockdown ?

Most people I know will comply most of the time, but not all of the time.

There is a big difference between being an anti-mask covid denier and deciding, for example, that actually your ds can see his gf, since he goes to school with her anyway, and what possible bloody difference could it make if he sees her in his home after school? Which is also why I will continue to see my closest friends and family in very small groups or one to one.

I will let our elderly parents decide for themselves.

Agreed AlexaShut Up; the one thing we are clear on is that lockdowns work. They are the only thing which has worked right across the world. It's not rocket science - if people are not in contact, they can't infect each other.

The price for a lockdown is damage to the economy, loss of livelihood and isolation. That's not rocket science either. As a population we have shown not enough of us are willing to pay that price to sustain a lockdown for long enough to eradicate CV or hang on for a vaccination or a spontaneous waning in infections. It's the marshmallow test on a population scale.

The rules are gonna do fuck all as they'll have to be lifted at some point. I don't agree with it.

@unmarkedbythat

Grow up, for goodness sake, and at least be honest with yourself. You are part of the problem and all the self righteous bullshit you spout pretending otherwise won't change that. It's this sort of posturing that really annoys me. You won't comply, you increase risks to everyone else. If the government are doing a poor job of managing this that is even more reason for people to act to reduce the spread- not to indulge in this frankly pathetic performance, trying to pretend that their selfishness is something to applaud. It is people like you I am going to blame for the upcoming lockdowns lasting longer than any of us is happy with- selfish, ignorant, egotistical idiots.

Exactly

We did what was asked, we have some of the lowest rates in the country and yet we are now having extra restrictions placed on us just because.

Yet places with much higher rates of infection get to carry on?

No.

British fatalism kicking in I see. This is going to be a long winter.

I won't be complying.

Well, thank you. Know that this means you are condemning me to a shielded life with a strong prospect of dying. I hope you are proud of yourself.

Enjoy the national lockdown too.

I think the point is there is absolutely no evidence to suggest these kind of quasi lockdown rules make any difference to the rate of infection. Only closing schools and all shops, hospitality, workplaces like back in March would have anything like a meaningful impact, and even then that would just slow the spread down (and we'd be in the same position in a month's time)

Not complying doesn’t punish the government for fucking up (or driving for eye tests, or getting the train with a positive test or shopping without masks) it punishes the little old granny who lives down the road, or the healthy 40 year old who contracts long covid.

It also punishes your local gyms & restaurants and the economy when you end up with a full lockdown again.

@TooManyDogsandChildren

It's the marshmallow test on a population scale

Brilliantly put.

Do you see what's happening in the North?

I'm pretty disgusted with the Non compliance brigade. It's so utterly selfish. There's people here with Tots who are really ill, who's relatives have died and you can't be arsed to do what's right? I just don't get how people can be so fucking stupid and hard hearted.

It's the marshmallow test on a population scale.

Yup. And most of us have failed miserably.

The non-compilers should pop into the NHS and carer thread. Understand what they’re choosing to inflict on these good people.

We all complied, for months. The virus still spread. We're never going to achieve that level of compliance again - it would be devastating for the economy, people's mental welfare, general public health etc.

I feel sorry for the old people that will live out the rest of their lives without contact from their families in fear of contracting Covid.

My brother lives 20 minutes from me in an area with much higher rates of infection. Yet the rules say its ok for him to go and visit our mum and she can visit him but I can't visit her and she can't visit me.

How is that remotely logical 🤔

This is what the beginning of hell in a handshake looks like.

@EmMac7

British fatalism kicking in I see. This is going to be a long winter.

British ? Or English ?

Sorry, but the UK is 4 countries, and it seems clear to me that it's England that has most of the problem.

I don't know when I last felt "British" - it's something I lost somewhere these past years.

This is the definition of illogical: people being frustrated at the NHS becoming the covid service, and so engaging in behaviours that will lead to increased covid transmission and even more delays to cancer treatments. How is this helping anyone?

The reason treatments aren't happening is not because staff are overloaded with covid patients, it is because hospitals don't want to allow people into hospital in case they have covid.

My best friend's husband is an oncologist (skin cancer) working in the SE. He is incandescent with rage because half his appointments have been cancelled. He is literally sitting round twiddling his thumbs. He has asked to do home visits. His trust won't let him.