I'm calling it - people aren't complying.

[TheFormattingIsWrong]

Local lockdowns aren't working. The North has proven that. Why would it be different in London or anywhere else for that matter? People have stopped complying. They did it in March when it was implied by Bojo that it was going to be a 3 month thing, but as it has become abundantly clear that that this is going to be a way of living until there is a vaccine, and there is no guarantee on a vaccine, people have just said sod it then, I'm not living that way.

I won't be complying. I'll be continuing to see my mum and my sisters. I'd obey it to the letter if it was a 2 week circuit breaker, but as it's clear we're going to have to live this way until at least next Spring, no, I won't be complying.

And for those who say "oh well that's why cases are going up" - until this government kicks itself up the arse and gets a functioning test and trace system in place, they always would anyway. Either it's lockdown or it's cases rising. And most of us aren't prepared to live without seeing family or friends (yes, indoors!) until Spring.

@Badbanana

And for those of you saying those of us against constant lockdowns should be refused hospital treatment, do you also apply that to smokers, alcoholics and the obese?

Their personal decisions largely affect only themselves. You can’t catch obesity.

Your idiotic decisions will deprive others of treatment.

There is not an option of covid goes away completely, like smallpox, in the very near future. We can't afford to keep locking down until a vaccine is available on a large enough scale. I expect to catch covid in the next few months and I expect my family and friends to catch it too. The obese, the smokers and the elderly in my family are likely to have it bad and possibly die. I do not believe there is an option for them to not get covid in the next few months. I will not be holding big parties but neither will I be going along with frankly stupid illogical rules so people can pretend death is being abolished.

This thread is really depressing. Do you not want a functioning health service available to you this winter ?

I'd happily sign a disclaimer to waiver that actually. Show me where I sign up.

People say this in the comfort of knowing such a waiver would never exist. People know the NHS are there to care for all, even complete idiots.

I can't see any Covid deniers on this thread. Nor do I see any selfish cunts.

What I do see are people who've reached the end of blind acceptance. People who are questioning and using their brains.

There are also a few rule followers and mindless sheep that like to point the finger and bleat that everyone who thinks for themselves is a selfish cunt.

Generally though the discussion on here has been quite thought provoking and heart warming. I've found, anyway.

Agree with you OP. Yes I'm selfish, no I'm not "pulling together as a society" (funny that is always trotted out regards to covid but most other issues are met with a why should we fund/help for this, that another) no I don't want to kill old people etc but we have an arrangement with friends and family that are comfortable with it, we will continue to see each other. My poor nan has had 2 much needed operations postponed because the risk of her catching covid could be fatal, but it will be fatal for her without the operation. Her words were "its like telling me to be scared of the bogeyman when theres an actual murderer in front of me" I've gone off on a tangent now but its frustrating.

And has it worked?

Nah, everyone fucked it off round about week 3 :)

What is the point of another lockdown if schools are open anyway? How much social distancing do they think happens in schools in reality? Of course they have implemented everything asked of them and more but the reality is dozens of kids in a small room spreads germs 🤷‍♀️ how is it different to an office or a restaurant or a non essential shop? Anyone in contact with a school going child or teacher (which is a large amount of the population) is exposed so what's the difference of adding on another contact or two?
I for one am sick to the back teeth of it. My baby is due in January, no idea if we'll be able to buy everything needed, or if I'll have to give birth in a mask. My wedding's already been postponed & we've no events at all to look forward too. No meals with friends, no weekends away, I don't even know who will see my baby after it's born. But no politician will stop me going to my mother's for support after (if he's able) my partner goes back to work.
I overheard an old woman in the shop yesterday giving out about it all being the fault young people. I wanted to scream. I'm a teacher. Every single secondary school aged pupil I've taught since schools reopened (100s of them) has complied with horrible new rules inside of school. I still count as young myself. I can't stay positive anymore, I don't want to take the time to better myself in another lockdown. I want my life to go back to normal. I want to look forward to things. I want to plan a night away with my partner and support our hospitality industry. I want to plan my wedding again without the sickening fear it could be pulled from under me. I want to think positively about the birth of my child and not about my partner sitting in a cold car waiting to be allowed in. I want my friends living abroad to be able to come home at Christmas and us all have a lovely festive time together. I don't think I'm asking for much, all these little moments add together to make a life worth living. This constant unknown is like a prison sentence with no release date. I'd rather they inject me with the bloody virus now, if I wasn't pregnant, honestly, I'd be first in line to rough it out for a few weeks to give us all herd immunity. Sorry rant over 🙈

Also not a covid denier. I'll put up with a lot if I believe it will help get cases down and keep them low. I just don't believe these tier restrictions will help much at all.

The idea seems to be that we can offset the risks of everyone back at work, in the shops, at school, uni, in the pub, on public transport etc. - if nobody sees their nearest and dearest.

I don't think that works and I think it's a shitty way to treat people.

This thread is really depressing. Do you not want a functioning health service available to you this winter ?

The amount of covid denial, not just on MN but across social media, is becoming terrifying.

There must be at least 60% of comments across social media now saying they will not comply. God help us

@Flaxmeadow

This. And I say that as a nurse who was redeployed to the front line from my education post in March for 4 months and my partner is front line health care staff. The number of people testing positive is on the rise (massively) only because we are testing more people

The infection rate is worked out by per capita
The number per 100,000. It has nothing to do with increased testing. It's the rate by population and how quickly that rate is increasing

Nonsense. If the infection rate is per capita and only 10 people a day are tested, you are going to get a completely different set of results when 1000 people a day are tested. If we had testing back in March/April like we do today, the number of positive tests would have been so much higher.

ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-testing#the-positive-rate-a-crucial-metric-for-understanding-the-pandemic

"The positive rate is a good metric for how adequately countries are testing because it indicates the level of testing relative to the size of the outbreak."

@allhappeningatonce

What is the point of another lockdown if schools are open anyway? How much social distancing do they think happens in schools in reality? Of course they have implemented everything asked of them and more but the reality is dozens of kids in a small room spreads germs 🤷‍♀️ how is it different to an office or a restaurant or a non essential shop? Anyone in contact with a school going child or teacher (which is a large amount of the population) is exposed so what's the difference of adding on another contact or two? I for one am sick to the back teeth of it. My baby is due in January, no idea if we'll be able to buy everything needed, or if I'll have to give birth in a mask. My wedding's already been postponed & we've no events at all to look forward too. No meals with friends, no weekends away, I don't even know who will see my baby after it's born. But no politician will stop me going to my mother's for support after (if he's able) my partner goes back to work. I overheard an old woman in the shop yesterday giving out about it all being the fault young people. I wanted to scream. I'm a teacher. Every single secondary school aged pupil I've taught since schools reopened (100s of them) has complied with horrible new rules inside of school. I still count as young myself. I can't stay positive anymore, I don't want to take the time to better myself in another lockdown. I want my life to go back to normal. I want to look forward to things. I want to plan a night away with my partner and support our hospitality industry. I want to plan my wedding again without the sickening fear it could be pulled from under me. I want to think positively about the birth of my child and not about my partner sitting in a cold car waiting to be allowed in. I want my friends living abroad to be able to come home at Christmas and us all have a lovely festive time together. I don't think I'm asking for much, all these little moments add together to make a life worth living. This constant unknown is like a prison sentence with no release date. I'd rather they inject me with the bloody virus now, if I wasn't pregnant, honestly, I'd be first in line to rough it out for a few weeks to give us all herd immunity. Sorry rant over 🙈

I’m almost certain you won’t have to give birth in a mask!!! You’ll be offered gas and air as a bare minimum and you’ll need to remove the mask

I don't think that works and I think it's a shitty way to treat people.

Yup absolutely

@pontypridd

I can't see any Covid deniers on this thread. Nor do I see any selfish cunts.

What I do see are people who've reached the end of blind acceptance. People who are questioning and using their brains.

There are also a few rule followers and mindless sheep that like to point the finger and bleat that everyone who thinks for themselves is a selfish cunt.

Generally though the discussion on here has been quite thought provoking and heart warming. I've found, anyway.

Hear hear

If you're not a covid denier and you accept that it's contagious and deadly, and you don't think the restrictions are working, surely you should be imposing more restrictions on yourself than the government guidelines/rules, because the restrictions being imposed aren't successfully containing the virus.

@TheFormattingIsWrong

Local lockdowns aren't working. The North has proven that. Why would it be different in London or anywhere else for that matter? People have stopped complying. They did it in March when it was implied by Bojo that it was going to be a 3 month thing, but as it has become abundantly clear that that this is going to be a way of living until there is a vaccine, and there is no guarantee on a vaccine, people have just said sod it then, I'm not living that way.

I won't be complying. I'll be continuing to see my mum and my sisters. I'd obey it to the letter if it was a 2 week circuit breaker, but as it's clear we're going to have to live this way until at least next Spring, no, I won't be complying.

And for those who say "oh well that's why cases are going up" - until this government kicks itself up the arse and gets a functioning test and trace system in place, they always would anyway. Either it's lockdown or it's cases rising. And most of us aren't prepared to live without seeing family or friends (yes, indoors!) until Spring.

Haven’t read the whole thread but OP like you I’m fed up of the fact that it’s well proven now (in the north) that local lockdowns don’t work. I think the prime minister is stupid and hasn’t got a clue. Local lockdowns? Can’t see my siblings and parents but all my kids are mixing with other kids and adults at school constantly. My 3 are at 3 different schools 🤦‍♀️ So the government think my husband, children and I can catch and spread Covid when in contact with my parents and siblings but not via the random kids and adults at school? How does that even work?? If it’s a national lockdown and my kids are at home away from strangers then yeah I will comply but otherwise why would I take part in a totally pointless exercise such as local lockdown or restrictions.

@TheFormattingIsWrong

if you were waiting for cancer treatment that’s been postponed I can guarantee you’d have a different view but I’m sure you’ll have an argument for that too!!

That is literally one of the reasons why many of us feel the way we do.

This is the definition of illogical: people being frustrated at the NHS becoming the covid service, and so engaging in behaviours that will lead to increased covid transmission and even more delays to cancer treatments. How is this helping anyone?

I think that people have learnt that lockdown doesn't really work. It supresses numbers temporarily, but at a huge cost to businesses, individuals, healthcare and more. You can't just have a few weeks and then reopen everything and it'll be fine, as a PP has said, we need to be balancing the economy as well, and no, that isn't just lining the pockets of the rich. It's peoples jobs, food on their table, a roof over their heads, and businesses they've spent years investing in. A family business that has been going for over 100 years closed recently, which is such a shame, and for what? Because the government cannot get actual measures such as an effective track and trace system into place.

I have complied with all restrictions to date and will carry on doing so (I'm in London) because I think the best chance we have is if lots of us stay apart from other humans so we don't pass the virus to each other. But:

*We came out of lockdown too soon when cases were too high and it was only a matter of time before they started rising again.

*Test and trace was never going to work well in the UK unless everyone was issued with identity cards which was politically unacceptable. It never will work even if the tech issues are resolved (remember the poll tax? same issues) and those placing their faith in it are clutching at straw men.

• Tell young people (

surely you should be imposing more restrictions on yourself than the government guidelines/rules

Not a question of more, but smarter.

For example, I would only visit my older and more vulnerable parents outside, maintaining distancing. I would not be so concerned about engaging with younger close friends/family.

But the reasons lockdowns don't work is because people don't fucking comply!! Why do people keep coming back with this circular argument?!

The first lockdown did work, because case numbers came right down. The local lockdowns have not worked because so many people have been "thinking for themselves".

@Eckhart

If you're not a covid denier and you accept that it's contagious and deadly, and you don't think the restrictions are working, surely you should be imposing more restrictions on yourself than the government guidelines/rules, because the restrictions being imposed aren't successfully containing the virus.

The issue is that the things mainly spreading the virus - schools, unis, hospitals - are not affected.

I personally don’t think that’s a good reason not to comply. It’s akin to saying “but china’s emissions aren’t going to change” when justifying your 8th foreign holiday of the year. But I see where people are coming from.

@Badbadbunny: Hospital admissions, ICU occupancy and deaths are also increasing! So, testing numbers are pretty irrelevant now. It's only a few weeks since the deniers were going on about more people being testing and saying it won't lead to more deaths etc, and they're now being proved wrong.

But there are not MORE deaths. Yes, there are deaths, as we have every day of the year, but they are not increasing at the same rate of positive tests. The reality is that the death rate remains low and most peope will not die from Covid. They may die with it but not from it. The impact on the general population from the "cure" however will be massive.

I don't have brilliant health but am not "vulnerable" but I would honestly take my chances with the virus rather than see our whole way of life and our children's futures going down the pan.

I think it's pretty simple really: I think people should follow the rules to save lives. If people choose not to and get caught by the police we slap their name on a list and when we do the calculations on the healthcare costs for those who suffered and died (and may even require ongoing care going forward, there is evidence to suggest covid may lead to chronic health conditions). Then we slap an extra tax on those who broke the rules, so if they want to take the risk, more power to them, but they shoulder some of the financial cost for the risks that they are taking.

I will be complying, but I don't believe it is of any use. You can't hold back a rising tide. Better just to wait - the tide will go out again in its own time.

School is a horrible place to be right now and I say that as someone who usually loves my job.

Little things like windows and doors being open, no heating, no movement around the room makes for a very uncomfortable day. My wrists and fingers ache from the cold, I can barely type.

Then the kids forget not to come too close. Or they borrow your own without asking and chew the lid. Or they come over to show you their work etc

Then there’s the ill children and parents refusing to collect them; refusing to keep them home; refusing to get them tested for Covid.

And yet this is where it’s apparently safe for me to be. It’s not safe and that’s nothing to do with Covid, I’m going to bloody well catch pneumonia at the very least.

But we can’t see our parents. I’m sorry, it doesn’t make sense and if I’m exempt from having to social distance on a day to day basis, I see no reason to not see the only two other people I want to see (outside my household).

The rules simply are one sided, only make sense some of the time and are deeply unjust. That’s why I am not 100% complying.