I'm calling it - people aren't complying.

[TheFormattingIsWrong]

Local lockdowns aren't working. The North has proven that. Why would it be different in London or anywhere else for that matter? People have stopped complying. They did it in March when it was implied by Bojo that it was going to be a 3 month thing, but as it has become abundantly clear that that this is going to be a way of living until there is a vaccine, and there is no guarantee on a vaccine, people have just said sod it then, I'm not living that way.

I won't be complying. I'll be continuing to see my mum and my sisters. I'd obey it to the letter if it was a 2 week circuit breaker, but as it's clear we're going to have to live this way until at least next Spring, no, I won't be complying.

And for those who say "oh well that's why cases are going up" - until this government kicks itself up the arse and gets a functioning test and trace system in place, they always would anyway. Either it's lockdown or it's cases rising. And most of us aren't prepared to live without seeing family or friends (yes, indoors!) until Spring.

Everyone I see is prepared to accept the potential consequences, so yes, thanks.

So what about all the people they see? Are they prepared to accept the consequences?

Again, please explain the difference between me unwittingly infecting a stranger with norovirus or chickenpox, and me unwittingly infecting a stranger with covid 19.

There is far more likelihood of you infecting a stranger with covid than with chicken pox, because so many people are already immune from CP. With norovirus, you're contagious from the point when you start feeling symptoms, so the chances are you aren't out and about meeting strangers anyway. Plus deaths from either are rare - around 80 per year in the UK for norovirus, 25 a year for chicken pox, compared with 43,000 from covid since February.

Those of you that think you know better than all the governments and scientists across the world. Can you tell me what qualifies you to have a better idea?

hmmm that was a tenuous connection there@Bluesheep8- not sure how that has anything to do with theatres being shut.

Why tenuous? The op said that large swathes of the general public had no respect for the arts. I was pointing out that it seems that large swathes have no respect for eachother.

I'm more furious about the huge numbers of people who've refused to download the NHS covid app

Is it fixed yet ?

if you were waiting for cancer treatment that’s been postponed I can guarantee you’d have a different view but I’m sure you’ll have an argument for that too!!

That is literally one of the reasons why many of us feel the way we do.

@Racoonworld

Totally agree. We won’t be complying either. The sooner the government realise that lockdown isn’t working the better.

So you won’t be expecting the NHS to treat you or your family presumably.

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head OP and many people won’t comply.

Personally I’m not affected by the household mixing as we don’t live near family etc so I can’t break the rules. But I’m not shocked that people are thinking sod it.

I would say 90% of people complied last time but this time, it’ll be no where near that figure.

There is only so much people will do to protect strangers, when it means they’re having to make sacrifices and put their own lives on hold.

Whether you like it if not, that’s how some people feel about it.

@Flaxmeadow

This. And I say that as a nurse who was redeployed to the front line from my education post in March for 4 months and my partner is front line health care staff. The number of people testing positive is on the rise (massively) only because we are testing more people

The infection rate is worked out by per capita
The number per 100,000. It has nothing to do with increased testing. It's the rate by population and how quickly that rate is increasing

Hospital admissions, ICU occupancy and deaths are also increasing! So, testing numbers are pretty irrelevant now. It's only a few weeks since the deniers were going on about more people being testing and saying it won't lead to more deaths etc, and they're now being proved wrong.

@TheFormattingIsWrong I’m not in the north so don’t know and the issue is we can’t accurately view the alternative outcome had we not implemented stricter measures. Cases may have been the same, lower or higher, I don’t have the mathematical or scientific modelling experience to estimate, but people a lot smarter than me I.e. Sage have said that it would be worse, and I am inclined to agree with them.

I imagine combined with the monumental government failures that non compliance is affecting infection rates nationwide (including in the north!)

Interesting how people are quick to point the finger of blame at The North & say how badly Northern people are behaving, how selfish they are etc for not complying with lockdown restrictions, but in the next sentence say that they themselves will not be complying, will be seeing family etc, as they don't want to have to live this way until at least next Spring, there's no guarantee of a vaccine anytime soon, etc etc.

Why on earth would you conclude this is the same set of people?

So what about all the peopletheysee? Are they prepared to accept the consequences?

As I've already said, they don't see anyone.

Fair enough, as long as he knows it can be a horrible way to die.

Most ways of dying are horrible @AuntieLydia - unfortunately I've had the misfortune of witnessing a handful of deaths with causes other than Covid. My mum included.

We don't get to choose how we're going to die.

@attillathenun

I’m with you OP. Absolutely sick to death of being told what to do with those flip floppers in Westminster with their half arsed, half baked plan. Anything they come up with is contradictory and a total joke. It’s apparently safe for us to see strangers at work and various other places yet I can’t see my own family. We are just delaying the inevitable, Covid isn’t going away and herd immunity is the only way forward.

This! But riddle me this. I work in and office with both my mum and dad and god knows how many other people. My mum can also provide child care for my DD. So I can literally go in the office spend 9 hours a day with my mum and dad. Then take my DD over to their house for an overnight stay.... but they can’t come round to my house for drinks on a weekend?! Fuck that.

Plenty of scientists are not arguing for lockdowns, they are arguing for better test and trace.

@Flaxmeadow

Can't all you covid deniers see the irony in saying

"I'm not complying with government restrictions....I blame the government for all this mess"

I’m not a covid denier. As I said upthread, I believe the data shows that one the main drivers of this rapid spread is schools/unis. I don’t believe data shows a socially distant cup of tea with immediate family (which is what most people on this thread are talking about, not warehouse parties) is a particularly massive cause of it.

So no, I don’t see the irony. The government is to blame for the test and trace mess, which was supposed to keep us out of needing another lockdown (I appreciate you and I watched different briefings and you took from them that we were told we would be locked down for 18 months). It’s because people are fucked off with the government that they are less willing to comply. Can’t you see that?

@pontypridd I wasn't referring to myself in that scenario it was two blokes I know at my local and the rules are enforced by the landlord because he doesn't want to get fined/shut down.

Just an example of rules not making sense.

So you won’t be expecting the NHS to treat you or your family presumably.

I would absolutely expect them to treat me, seeings my husband and I pay so much in tax and NI.

I’m not complying because I intend to see my parents. 2 people, who live in the country.

I can guarantee I’m far more likely to catch Covid from the school I work at, which has already had to isolate numerous year groups due to Covid cases.

Why should I be expected to mix with thousands...but I can’t see 2?

And why should I go without treatment, when the chances are I’m going to get Covid due to the position the government has put me in. 2m from the children at all times...what a joke.

All these restrictions have been put into place to apparently protect the elderly and vulnerable and save the hospitals getting too overloaded.
Well the government have had 7 months to backup the NHS space and clearly haven’t used it and my 89 year old DGM is currently sitting alone in a hospital with no visitors allowed facing an operation to try to fix her burst gall bladder after gall bladder removal was put off for too long. She hasn’t been given a very good chance of survival and the doctors have told her they won’t resuscitate. So we’ve all dutifully left the poor lady totally alone in her house for 7 months, only for that to have probably been her last months of life and now none of us can see her or support her in person unless she makes it through the operation. Well what was the fucking point?!!!

Totally done with the whole thing. It’s no way to live whether you’re young or old.

For the record I am not a covid denier. I believe it is an illness to be taken seriously and one that has serious consequences for a small minority of people. I don't believe herd immunity is the solution.

Total 2-3 week lockdown or just go with herd immunity. All this faffing about with different levels & restrictions is confusing.
Everyone is simply trying to work out what is/isn't allowed. It is totally ridiculous.

@Pantsupyourbum

God this thread is full of selfish cunts.... if you were waiting for cancer treatment that’s been postponed I can guarantee you’d have a different view but I’m sure you’ll have an argument for that too!!!

I think a lot of cancer treatment was postponed not due to lockdown but due to clinical reasons of it being dangerous to continue with chemo in case you caught covid.

I feel desperate for cancer sufferers at the best of times but especially now.

A massive reason for non compliance is mental health and well being. All of which trumps Covid. We can die of anything at any time. It is important to live and enjoy life whilst you have it.

I accept that some people will have particular needs due to genuine mental health issues. However, I have also seen a lot of people doing whatever the hell they like "because of mental health" and think it has become a convenient excuse for many.

The people I know who have genuine mental health issues are not generally the ones who are choosing to ignore the guidelines. Of course, there will be some.

Perhaps we should have medical exemptions for those who would not be able to manage their mental health effectively without forming part of a support bubble? Otherwise, mental health just becomes a convenient cover for people doing whatever they like.

That's why we end up with more severe actions. I.e. if people won't social distance in pubs, and the pub management won't enforce existing rules, then the pubs get closed, either on an individual or local/regional basis. It's why Paris is now under a curfew. Why Madrid is under a state of emergency. If people don't follow the rules voluntarily, then ultimately, they get forced to do so.

To me that is absolutely chilling. If the government says do X and the population don't do it, the government will MAKE YOU DO X. Do we really have no choice over what our government tells us to do, when they are removing basic freedoms? If it gets to a point where a majority of the population says no, what happens? Martial law?

the north