Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

Original poster

Are we sacrificing the young to save the elderly?

865 replies

RubyandBen · 15/10/2020 08:32

Reading another thread where someone was accusing the OP of wanting to sacrifice the elderly re CV. But the longer this goes on the more education and the economy are screwed is it actually the other way round?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
redvest · 15/10/2020 10:42

Children are going to school, young people are going to uni and college, we can still have various hobbies, go out to restaurants and bars (even with restrictions), shop for anything they want, travel to work and work. There are restrictions, but they don't affect that many activities day to day.

Where are all these sacrifices? Stop being dramatic.

paddlingwhenIshouldbeworking · 15/10/2020 10:43

Also, yes the Tories have treated the NHS appallingly but that is not the reason the NHS will become overwhelmed without action.

The Germans have far more capacity but the Angela Merkel, a scientist by background, said the reason they did better in the first wave was not capacity or testing but they acted more quickly before it took hold in the same way as it did in Italy, Spain & France.

Look across Europe.

Poppingnostopping · 15/10/2020 10:44

BurgerOnTheOrientExpress with a death rate of over 40,000, people in the UK mostly don't wear masks or do so begrudgingly for the last moment before they enter a shop and then whip it off spreading any virus everywhere.

They'd much rather have a draconian lockdown which will depress the already ailing economy.

Go figure!

Jrobhatch29 · 15/10/2020 10:45

@redvest

Children are going to school, young people are going to uni and college, we can still have various hobbies, go out to restaurants and bars (even with restrictions), shop for anything they want, travel to work and work. There are restrictions, but they don't affect that many activities day to day.

Where are all these sacrifices? Stop being dramatic.

It's not just about the here and now, or even the year so far, it's also about the future that young people are facing
Moondust001 · 15/10/2020 10:47

What threads like this demonstrate has little to do with Covid, and much more to do with a polarised country wherein everything is black or white, and descends to a level of "debate" characterised by the language of distrust, antipathy, and outright hatred; and where "we" (whoever we are) are always right and speak for the interests of everyone, and those who disagree with us are to be abused and attacked. It is increasingly the abiding characteristic of any discussion in this country, whether it is Covid, Brexit, or anything else.

Anyone who thinks this is a healthy situation should read Ece Temelkuran's "How to Lose a Country: the seven steps from democracy to dctatorship". It makes uncomfortable reading.

redvest · 15/10/2020 10:47

@MilkTwoSugarsThanks
Is there any reliable evidence that "long COVID" is different to bog-standard post viral syndrome?

Yes and no. The lung damage is not a feature of bog standard viral illness. But you are totally missing the point. Viral illnesses occur among the population on a limited number because we have a lot of herd immunity to them. No one had immunity to Covid, so the numbers with a post covid lasting illness is massively increased and badly affecting far more people.

Original poster
RubyandBen · 15/10/2020 10:52

@amusedtodeath1
**I remember the miner's strike, the three day week, blackouts all the time. I remember the massive unemployment, the families literally starving.

You know nothing**

Seriously? I'm 46 I remember all of this too and I live in a mining area. How can you compare that with what's currently going on?

OP posts:
DianaT1969 · 15/10/2020 10:56

This again? 😳 Have you missed all the previous threads OP?

DianaT1969 · 15/10/2020 10:59

OP, would you say we sacrificed the elderly when we tossed them out of hospital beds in the first wave? Into homes with no Covid test?
Would you say we are sacrificing jobs and businesses? Yes, lots of people of all ages have been affected badly. Why are you focusing on the young only?

Popcornriver · 15/10/2020 10:59

No we're not. We know the virus is more likely to kill the vulnerable and elderly. We know some people that get infected have long lasting symptoms. We are thankfully learning more about treatments.

However we also know that some viruses can take a long time to reveal their true effects. I don't think I'm being overly anxious in saying I'd prefer to not actually contract it in the first place despite being young and having no health conditions.

Even if we just say bugger it to the restrictions for the sake of the economy what do you think will happen to regular health care when the virus spreads unchecked? What's your answer when people see the rising number of deaths and hospital admissions and decide they don't care about the economy and they're not willing to go out and spend money?

Cornettoninja · 15/10/2020 11:00

Focussing on one aspect of the current situation is where any argument falls apart.

We need to balance health, infrastructure and the economy whilst keeping a semblance of normality that keeps those things running. It’s bigger than any single one element and all of them overlap with repercussions throughout. The only certain is that there are going to be people badly affected and for the most part that is unavoidable.

Championioning one element by trying to minimise another just shows lack of awareness of the depth and severity of the situation.

aSofaNearYou · 15/10/2020 11:02

No and I think parents who are still saying this are becoming increasingly self absorbed tbh.

SecretSpAD · 15/10/2020 11:03

Seriously? I'm 46 I remember all of this too and I live in a mining area. How can you compare that with what's currently going on?

Because many of the consequences that you and other people are saying are facing young people is the same as we all saw in the 80's, 90's and during the ,ast ten years. The difference is that we have a pandemic that kills people - mostly vulnerable people of all ages, but can significantly affect everyone of any age so we need to protect the health of our society now. If we don't protect the health of our society then we have no economy.

Young people are being no more shafted than every other age group in our society. We all need to restrict our lives for a while to reduce the incidence of this virus and while young people (though to be fair it's more likely to be their parents whinging tha. They are) need to do their bit. And if we really want to talk about a whole generation being sacrificed may I remind you of the two world wars? What would you prefer for your children? I knkw I'd prefer mine to be slightly bored, but alive.

Their grandfathers however both lost brothers, fathers, uncles, cousins, friends to those wars.

IndieRo · 15/10/2020 11:08

Yes

mrshoho · 15/10/2020 11:09

@SecretSpAD

Seriously? I'm 46 I remember all of this too and I live in a mining area. How can you compare that with what's currently going on?

Because many of the consequences that you and other people are saying are facing young people is the same as we all saw in the 80's, 90's and during the ,ast ten years. The difference is that we have a pandemic that kills people - mostly vulnerable people of all ages, but can significantly affect everyone of any age so we need to protect the health of our society now. If we don't protect the health of our society then we have no economy.

Young people are being no more shafted than every other age group in our society. We all need to restrict our lives for a while to reduce the incidence of this virus and while young people (though to be fair it's more likely to be their parents whinging tha. They are) need to do their bit. And if we really want to talk about a whole generation being sacrificed may I remind you of the two world wars? What would you prefer for your children? I knkw I'd prefer mine to be slightly bored, but alive.

Their grandfathers however both lost brothers, fathers, uncles, cousins, friends to those wars.

Thank you! Can you save this and please repost on the next thread and the next and the next! I don't know if the OP will actually read it though.
PretendLife · 15/10/2020 11:10

No we are not 'sacrificing' the young. Catastrophising parents are doing their kids no favours. I have a lot of faith in the youngsters of today, I think most of them are just getting on with it like the rest of us.

This will pass and hospitality/travel jobs will return once people start going out again. The young have time to recover from this and a positive attitude will go a long way to help them.

Thatusernamewastaken · 15/10/2020 11:17

Of course, but the initial closure of schools coincided with a lot of people wfh, or on furlough, so they were able to be there for their children.
Being able to provide at least 2-3 hours of education vs a class of 30 in school for a whole day is equivalent for a lot of year groups.
Having schools still open while trying to implement a lockdown is a total nonsense. It’s a half measure that has led us to where we are now.
The government should have implemented a total lockdown far earlier than the first one and closed the borders. Where we are now is a direct result of that failure and closing businesses again while schools remain open isn’t going to work, at all.

TableFlowerss · 15/10/2020 11:20

Yes

IwishIwasyoda · 15/10/2020 11:20

Wouldn't quite put it like this but the needs of young people are being woefully ignored / disregarded in favour of preserving life at all cost

This article sums it up for me
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/13/lockdowns-mental-health-sacrifice-pandemic

awesomeaircraft · 15/10/2020 11:28

No. It feels like this but it has not been a year yet.

CV19 affects the middle aged too, delays basic surgery for everyone bar where life threatening injuries need mending, delays cancer detection and treatment.

TheClaws · 15/10/2020 11:31

It's not just about the here and now, or even the year so far, it's also about the future that young people are facing

Jrobhatch Isn't it the future we're all facing? Why such a narrow focus on young people to the expense of all others?

Jrobhatch29 · 15/10/2020 11:33

@TheClaws

It's not just about the here and now, or even the year so far, it's also about the future that young people are facing

Jrobhatch Isn't it the future we're all facing? Why such a narrow focus on young people to the expense of all others?

Because that is what the thread is discussing Confused
Juststopswimming · 15/10/2020 11:41

@TheClaws

It's not just about the here and now, or even the year so far, it's also about the future that young people are facing

Jrobhatch Isn't it the future we're all facing? Why such a narrow focus on young people to the expense of all others?

And because young people will be bearing the effects for much longer so the impact is greatest on them?!
Sweetiecorn · 15/10/2020 11:43

Yes. We are ruining the economy and young people's futures for a disease which will barely affect 99% of people.

MummyPop00 · 15/10/2020 11:45

Made the point before that these measures are primarily to protect the elderly.

Only think it’s right then that the likes of Inheritance Tax is raised / threshold lowered so we can recoup some of the significant costs & there definitely needs to be a generational shift of wealth because the young are going to get completely shafted.

No previous generation has took a razor blade to the economy for a pandemic as far as I’m aware. That is a choice that has to be paid for.