Are we sacrificing the young to save the elderly?

[RubyandBen]

Reading another thread where someone was accusing the OP of wanting to sacrifice the elderly re CV. But the longer this goes on the more education and the economy are screwed is it actually the other way round?

Orwellian is used to describe a political system in which the government tries to control every part of people's lives. It's similar to, but not exactly like 1984.

If you can't see echoes of dystopian fiction in our lives today, beyond saying that we don't have Newspeak, then I suggest you read Orwell again.

@cathyandclare I agree that there are worrying signs we may be sliding into an Orwellian police state. £10,000 is an excessive amount to fine students. And arresting people for protesting against lockdown (as happened at Stormont) - a chilling clampdown on the basic civil rights of freedom of assembly and expression.

Yes of course we are. Average age if you die of it is 82. Barely any risk in healthy sub-50s

This will destroy a generation. Education/wealth/health

I am amazed this isn’t being hammered out more. Most older folk I know what to shield and let the rest of us get in with it. Yes long covid seems a thing no more than any post vital fatigue after flu or similar and from which i has (which the NHS isn’t remotely bothered about usually).

So what if the median age is 82? That means that half the deaths are in people under 82 and tells you nothing about the age range of those deaths. I appreciate that the risk is low if you are under 50 and have no underlying conditions but not everybody is under 50 and not everybody is fortunate enough to have no underlying conditions. I know someone who died from it age 50 . They did have an underlying condition but that doesn't mean their life wasn't important .Stop being so dismissive of other people's lives.

No because the young will not die but the elderly will.
Children have a right to education but that doesn't trump the right to life. Education does not have to be in school either.

Orwellian is used to describe a political system in which the government tries to control every part of people's lives. It's similar to, but not exactly like 1984

What is happening to the students is not Orwellian, unless you think Orwellian means anything you want it to mean.

@Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow Long tailed COVID affects 1 in 20. That is far more than the in incidence of pvf after flu.

If your arguements hold water you shouldn't need to misrepresent the facts to support them. Maybe you are wealthy enough to afford months off work with illness but 1 in 20 of us cant.

Please stop dismissing long covid. I've had a post viral illness for 18 years it's fucked up every aspect of my life. I am disabled as a result. I can't work full time. I feel shite every. Single. Day. For 18 years. It's made me suicidal.

@Belladonna12

So what if the median age is 82? That means that half the deaths are in people under 82 and tells you nothing about the age range of those deaths. I appreciate that the risk is low if you are under 50 and have no underlying conditions but not everybody is under 50 and not everybody is fortunate enough to have no underlying conditions. I know someone who died from it age 50 . They did have an underlying condition but that doesn't mean their life wasn't important .Stop being so dismissive of other people's lives.

Good post. Except I just need to point out it's actually 45, not 50, when the risk starts to increase. The risk of death that is. There's also Long Covid - which appears to be affecting women more than men. Remember many 45-50 year olds have young children (who obviously need their parents).

@Toontown

Please stop dismissing long covid. I've had a post viral illness for 18 years it's fucked up every aspect of my life. I am disabled as a result. I can't work full time. I feel shite every. Single. Day. For 18 years. It's made me suicidal.

I'm so sorry @Toontown Too many people simply don't seem to understand the impact of long-term disability. The only hope is the Long Covid treatment clinics and/or research might eventually be able to help people in your situation too. The very least offer more support and understanding.

In a way, Long Covid is far more of a worry than death, but too few realise (or accept) it.

It's early days, but long covid bears thinking about:

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/21/women-aged-50-60-at-greatest-risk-of-long-covid-experts-suggest

Yes because they will be paying for it for life

@Belladonna12

The standard deviation for COVID deaths is actually not high at all. The vast majority of deaths are in over 80s.

@village - without wanting to sound brutal- you do know everyone has to die at some point?

Do you really think children should not get an education for the next c.5 years in order to save the elderly?! (And before anyone jumps on me - YES I KNOW its not just the elderly who die from covid but the vast, vast majority is)

Maybr we should all just stay indoors doing homelearning and watching netflix until they find a vaccine for death? I've heard its in late stage trials now.

VillageGreenTree without wanting to sound brutal- you do know everyone has to die at some point?

Soooo not the point, otherwise we'd let everyone die, regardless of age.

Do you really think children should not get an education for the next c.5 years in order to save the elderly?!

That is not what' s happening, and yes, a person's life is worth more than education.

What a ridiculous statement. A persons life is worth more than education.

Can you qualify this?

Do you mean that young people ought to forgo their education to save the lives of very elderly people?

I’m 47, not elderly, and I don’t agree that children should forgo their education to save my life. How selfish and short sighted.

We are all dying, you know. Every day we are alive. One day, you’ll die.

@echt

What a ridiculous statement from you. Education and health are inextricably linked- to the extent that DC who perform less well at school will end up with worse life chances and a lower life expectancy.

They will quite literally lose years from their lives. Given that we already have horrendous social mobility in this country, that has been exacerbated by online ‘learning’.

Online school is great for those with ample space and equipment. Not so much for disadvantaged DC with no desk, no space, no internet and crowded into a tiny flat with siblings.

Do you mean that young people ought to forgo their education to save the lives of very elderly people?

I was responding to a poster who said we all have to die sometime, as if that made it OK. Young people are not forgoing their education; it's a way of needlessly pitting on set against another.

How selfish and short sighted

???????

Education and health are inextricably linked- to the extent that DC who perform less well at school will end up with worse life chances and a lower life expectancy

And this is inextricably linked to social class.

@Ecosse we have all those things but online learning was a disaster for my daughter. Lockdown was awful for her. She’s 8 and is usually so bubbly and happy but a few weeks in I found her sobbing as she had no one to play with and felt so alone. She dreamt she was in prison with us and was miserable. I did my best but I can’t replace the friends she has. She hated me trying to teach her and did very little for the whole time. She had less than 9 hours of contact time with her teachers in 6 months.

Now she’s back in school she’s chatting and laughing again. She needs so much more than just dh and I. A computer and desk does not allow normal social development which is vital for young minds.

We take the risks with long covid. My sister has had it. She is 6 months on and getting there. (There is a lot you can do for CFS - read Sarah Myhill’s amazing book). I had post viral fatigue myself for a year badly and still have tendencies.

Yes I need to work. And I still don’t think we should throw the younger generation under a bus. Not least as there will be no money to pay for anything - for decades.

We need to be brave and accent the low risks for most of us and get on with it. The vast majority of people will be fine and a tiny minority will suffer fatigue for longer:

You do realise the vaccine isn’t the magic bullet?

Please please take vitamin D this winter - a decent dose until March and some magnesium. Lose the tummy fat. Protect yourselves as much as possible.

That is not what' s happening, and yes, a person's life is worth more than education

Education IS people’s lives.

It seems to me that the Govt is now prioritising education even if this puts vulnerable children, teachers and parents at risk.

This is especially bad as you will always get parents who will send kids into school ill.

Yes they lost a term and a halfs education but teachers are now doing all they can to help kids catch up.

Incidentally I read the daily reports of deaths who show the age range and most days it includes at least one 30 40 or 50 something person. Yes they probably have a pre existing condition but that could be chronic and non life limiting.

Plus long COVID as previously discussed

The children who parents die or suffer long term ill health are hardly going to be thriving either. Or the kids who get very sick themselves.

It is strange how in the early days the anti dementors were always going on about how dramatic people were about a virus which is only flu etc etc.

Yet now the most dramatic people seems to be the ones anti lockdown.
Locked up
Sacrifice
Economy completely shut down
There will never be a vaccine
Education ruined
Out if school for 6 months

Education IS people’s lives.

Well said

The children whose parents die? Are you kidding me? Have you seen how low the death rate this thing has?

And conversely the rates of all other causes of death increasing not to mention a mental health crisis.

Do the bloody numbers! People have no idea of the bigger picture