Are we sacrificing the young to save the elderly?

[RubyandBen]

Reading another thread where someone was accusing the OP of wanting to sacrifice the elderly re CV. But the longer this goes on the more education and the economy are screwed is it actually the other way round?

The elderly have been told to stay home and "shield" so everyone else can get on with life. The young have done this - and as a result the virus has run riot. Unless you actually want the NHS to kill off the elderly those from care homes, who cant isolate, then occupy hospital beds along with those under 65 who are unlucky enough to get the virus badly. There are as many under 65 in hospital as the 65-74. The average age in ICU is about 60.

So no - it's young people spreading the virus who are depriving themselves of a future. Many of their jobs actually depend on elderly people, who are disproportionate users of services. So even if you killed off the old people the hairdressers, plumbers, decorators, gardeners, personal care staff would be out of work.

I suspect all age groups have people who are behaving in a way that spreads the virus, and blaming any group doesn't help

We need to look at why...clearly students returning to school and university provides great spreading opportunities, hardly the students fault though

Other people may be ignoring /taking risks because they need to work, have very little savings to see them through a recommended isolation

And a few will be silly people who just don't get it

We need to look at why...clearly students returning to school and university provides great spreading opportunities, hardly the students fault though

It seems to be going down quite a bit in universities was at least very stable, in contrast to the rest of the country. Not much is said about that in the media I notice.

was or

@alreadytaken the elderly were never told to shield. The extremely vulnerable were which is people of ALL ages including children and working adults

Yes, not sure what the alternative is though.

I just wish older people could show a bit more gratitude and empathy towards the young and what they're suffering. The young will be paying for this for the rest of their lives.

And during the 1920's flu outbreak , the American states that did the strictest lockdowns recovered financially much stronger than those that did weaker or no lockdowns

Problem is our government has fucked that chance up. They fucked up in March locking down FAR to late. They didn't use lockdown time to get a working track, trace and isolated system, so they fucked that up as well. And now here we are, looks to me like they're still fucking up. They're spending billions in loads of really dodgy deals as well.

yes.

@KenDodd

Yes, not sure what the alternative is though.

I just wish older people could show a bit more gratitude and empathy towards the young and what they're suffering. The young will be paying for this for the rest of their lives.

And so will the elderly,,.some of the, with a severely curtailed rest of life

And so will the elderly
No they won't.

They won't have to shoulder the financial burden of this, the young will. I say this as an older person myself.

Better to shoulder a financial burden over the course of a long and hopefully healthy life than to spend the last/one of the last years of your life alone at home. I dont know many elderly who wouldnt gladly change places with a twenty-something, economic uncertainty or no.

My parents and their generation were children in WW2. They know a thing or two about shouldering the financial burden built up by their predecessors.

So as soon as I say we should be grateful and sympathetic to the costs the young are will have to bear to protect the elderly from a virus, a virus that leaves the young largely unscathed we have a poster saying, but, but, but, the elderly. Kind of proves my point.

I just don't feel they owe a debt of gratitude. It's not like they are enjoying a lovely lifestyle whilst the young toil. It's a virus - shit for everyone one way or another.

I just don't feel they owe a debt of gratitude
Clearly.

It's a virus - shit for everyone one way or another.

The virus is only really shit for the elderly. It's the lockdown that's shit for the young. As I said though, I don't know what the alternative would be.

Thousands of the elderly were sacrificed when covid positive elderly were moved out of hospitals to care homes so that the NHS had beds.

Didnt anyone look at Van Tam's slides - the virus has spread in the young then it spreads to the older age groups. That is not an opinion, it's a fact.

Do I blame them for that - no, the government wanted to keep the economy going and told them they could go to bars and restaurants safely so why not think it's safe everywhere. Children have been told they have to go to school and parents have not wanted them to have to wear masks/ have let them go on playdates and sleepovers. Doesn't alter the fact that the young have been the ones spreading the virus and will be the ones paying financially for that.

Meanwhile significant numbers of people who havent been able to get to those bars and restaurants will be paying for it with their lives.
And there will be virtually no health care for years unless you can pay for it - so quite a few people who havent been out having fun and spreading the virus will also be paying for this for years.

Yes dying is the ultimate worse case scenario but I’m not sure that long COVID is much better. I’ve not seen any stats where it says the average long COVID sufferer is 82, I don’t think we can tidy this up by implying we’re making huge sacrifices for a group that might pass any time soon anyway.

Also, a good portion of those elderly made a longer and more substantial sacrifice in WW2 without which there possibly wouldn’t be much to protect now.

God, when are we going to stop wheeling out ww2. You'd have to be practically 100 to have fought in ww2, most of our now, even very elderly, would have been young children in the war.

I remember watching Britain's Got Talent with the Chelsea Pensioner on it once. Amanda Holden was going on about how the younger generation owe him everything for risking his life in ww2. Poor bloke just stood there looking awkward and embarrassed.

Have you seen this story about students being suspended and fined £10000 each for holding a party for 30? It's quite Orwellian.

Cathy,

I think you need to reread Orwell.

@larrygrylls

Cathy,

I think you need to reread Orwell.

@KenDodd My point is, generations make sacrifices and suck it up. A good number in this generation want to throw people under the bus when the sacrifice they’re being asked to make isn’t big in comparison

Oh, and my grandmother survived the camps so will continue mentioning WW2

Have you seen this story about students being suspended and fined £10000 each for holding a party for 30? It's quite Orwellian

Trying hard to remember anyone being fined in "Nineteen Eighty-Four".

Possibly in "Animal Farm"......but not for partying.

Bizarre.

Those tired of the WW2 narrative, need to remember that rationing continued for a long time after the war, sugar only came off the ration in 1954.

So yes, non-combatants and children experienced hardship. The war was over, but the conditions, bar the bombing,. continued. It's worth saying that the concern expressed about lost opportunities, mental health problems associated with Covid for youth, all apply to these older people.