With no vaccination imminent, how long are we going to keep doing this?

[RubyandBen]

Disrupted education that will impact on some DC forever, sending perfectly healthy DC home from school for 2 weeks again and again, lockdown of university students who will only have mild symptoms (I know there's always one or two who suffer more but the vast majority won't), destroying whole industries hospitality, travel, retail, hundreds of thousands unemployed, huge recession. Not even going to mention the long term impact on all the OTHER non covid illnesses that have been shelved.
If there's no vaccination imminent what's the plan? Are we going to carry on in this horrible limbo that's going to destroy too much or admit defeat and realise people will die?
Before I'm accused of being a mass murderer, I've followed all the rules but don't know how much more I can take of this.

No idea. There is no real plan. Just get drunk.

I was told by a British consultant today that 3 vaccines are pretty close to licence. One of which is being tested on 10 000 British volunteers over the next few weeks.

So which ever media outlet denying vaccines they are wrong.

@hopsalong ? what about the potentially vulnerable person that is infected by the student with only cold symptoms?

Which is worse ? 2 weeks in uni accomodation or 2 weeks in ITU dying with no family allowed in to comfort you.

I'm sure every student has some device where they can speak to family and friends. Most have netflix, prime or a load of DvDs. Sure it's not the normal freshers fun. But it's not the worst.

However if ppl will just follow the rules we won't need constant restrictions.

Well our family have used the NHS lots recently. It has definitely not shut down.
We have had GP appointment and Consultant clinic appointments by phone. Inpatient and A and E visits and routine bloods/ screening appointments, scans etc Does seem to be a postcode lottery.

A consultant has told a family member today that they are getting the vaccine in December.

Surely that’s a good thing and the end may be in sight.

@Northernsoulgirl45

Well our family have used the NHS lots recently. It has definitely not shut down. We have had GP appointment and Consultant clinic appointments by phone. Inpatient and A and E visits and routine bloods/ screening appointments, scans etc Does seem to be a postcode lottery.

It is.

Down here the dental practice has cancelled all routine checkups and no new appointments given. I had all my consultant appointments cancelled, had one call 3 months ago from my specialist nurse for 3 minutes and was told it would possibly be some time in 2021 before I see the consultant (but not guaranteed). The support line to the department is never answered and all you get is the coronavirus message and the call is then terminated.

The GP practice won't let me in (long story), so now looking to register with a new one.

In a word, it's a total mess, so I'm just taking the medication and not bothering to attempt to get medical support from now on, because I can't get it.

@PhilCornwall1. Tbh our dentist's seem to have shut down too. Got excited as we were asked to rebook our check ups. These have now been cancelled.

@AgnesNaismith

A consultant has told a family member today that they are getting the vaccine in December.

Surely that’s a good thing and the end may be in sight.

Well... he can’t know this for certain, because none of the vaccines are licensed yet, but there’s a very good chance he, as (presumably) front line NHS, will.

I’m WFH NHS, with some insight into the plans, and have my fingers crossed for January.

As I understand it, the Oxford vaccine needs 75 participants to contract the virus to unblind and see whether the COVID vaccine has been effective compared to the meningococcal vaccine. If it is they could apply for an initial licence to vaccinate vulnerable/at risk people. The trial would continue until 150 are exposed.

The powers that be may know if, for example, 74 participants have tested positive. BUT they will have no idea if the numbers are lower in the COVID vaccine group. However, they'll be getting everything ready just in case.

Grateful if anyone more knowledgable could confirm, or tell me I've got it wrong. I'm medical but not involved in trials.

I don't know anyone who has had a positive test. And those that do, on MN, they aren't that ill. Or their children aren't that ill. So what's the problem?

The only problem is if you get it do bad that you require hospital treatment. Which most don't. Do what's the problem with getting it?

*Well... he can’t know this for certain, because none of the vaccines are licensed yet, but there’s a very good chance he, as (presumably) front line NHS, will.

I’m WFH NHS, with some insight into the plans, and have my fingers crossed for January.*

@WiseUpJanetWeiss SHE works in the private sector. Check your unconscious bias.

@AgnesNaismith

*Well... he can’t know this for certain, because none of the vaccines are licensed yet, but there’s a very good chance he, as (presumably) front line NHS, will.

I’m WFH NHS, with some insight into the plans, and have my fingers crossed for January.*

@WiseUpJanetWeiss SHE works in the private sector. Check your unconscious bias.

It doesn’t matter where she works.

I don’t use plural pronouns for singulars so make random choices. If the sex of the person you’re speaking about matters to you, use a pronoun that indicates sex.

@Torvean32

As I said, the student with cold symptoms didn't have covid-19. He tested negative.

@AgnesNaismith

A consultant has told a family member today that they are getting the vaccine in December.

Surely that’s a good thing and the end may be in sight.

I have heard this too from someone in the NHS. However roll-out to the most vulnerable of the general public will be a few more months.

You only need to vaccinate a small fraction of the population as deaths are concentrated in these at-risk people. However my worry is that the general public have been so scared by the ludicrous fear-mongering that you'll get people with negligible risk refusing to do anything until they get a vaccine, delaying any economic recovery years.

Most people don't need a vaccine, but it's a good idea for health workers and those with risks hundreds of times greater than the average.

I don’t use plural pronouns for singulars so make random choices. If the sex of the person you’re speaking about matters to you, use a pronoun that indicates sex.

Defining the sex of a person shouldn’t matter when discussing matters not related to their sex. However the presumption of what sex a person is based upon their job title does matter. Particularly from someone who works in the NHS.

@RubyandBen

If there's no vaccination imminent what's the plan?
Depends on what you mean by imminent. The trials are in final phases. That's fairly imminent in the overall scheme of things.

The plan is to control the spread of the virus and keep the reproduction rate down until a vaccine is available. There won't be a plan B. We need the vaccine.

Are we going to carry on in this horrible limbo that's going to destroy too much or admit defeat and realise people will die?
Yes, we are going to go on in this limbo because, although we need the economy, life is more important. Even if the whole economy is destroyed, as long as there is life, we can start to rebuild.

I know people are saying society will cease to function if we stop these restrictions,
It will.
but I think it will if we carry on doing it.
It will.

Another few years of this and the economy is absolutely broken and education irreparably damaged.
Another few years? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
The country can't go on like this for another few years. The economy can't go on like this for much longer.
We need to get this under control asap but that will not happen if people continue to flout the restrictions and decide that the rules and laws do not apply to them.

If the government have their way it will be years and years seeing as they don't seem to be willing to let us live our lives anytime soon.

So how do we exactly get it under control? Trace & Test? It’s not only compliance that’s an issue but also who knows how many asymptomatics are out there? I’m guessing it’s a lot.

@kittensarecute

If the government have their way it will be years and years seeing as they don't seem to be willing to let us live our lives anytime soon.

If you haven't twigged by now that your life and those of your family don't matter a flying fuck to this government it's hard to know what it would take.

One death is a tragedy. A million a statistic.

If you haven't twigged by now that your life and those of your family don't matter a flying fuck to this government it's hard to know what it would take.
If they didn't give a flying fuck they would just let everything carry on as normal and let us die. It is because they care that they are trying to stop it reproducing so quickly so that deaths are minimised.

@Youandmeareluckytobeus

If you haven't twigged by now that your life and those of your family don't matter a flying fuck to this government it's hard to know what it would take. If they didn't give a flying fuck they would just let everything carry on as normal and let us die. It is because they care that they are trying to stop it reproducing so quickly so that deaths are minimised.

They are just stopping the NHS being screwed even more than it is, not save your life.

@Youandmeareluckytobeus if the whole economy is destroyed as you describe surely there would be mass death on an unimaginable scale. Barely any food or water, no medical care, no power. Perhaps we could start to rebuild as you suggest but there would be very few alive to do it

(But I do agree with your other points)

@Youandmeareluckytobeus

If you haven't twigged by now that your life and those of your family don't matter a flying fuck to this government it's hard to know what it would take. If they didn't give a flying fuck they would just let everything carry on as normal and let us die. It is because they care that they are trying to stop it reproducing so quickly so that deaths are minimised.

Have you forgotten that at the start of this that was exactly what they planned to do ? Until the implications were obvious. Then they had to find a different way to do it.

And here we are, 6 months later.

@MummyPop00

So how do we exactly get it under control? Trace & Test? It’s not only compliance that’s an issue but also who knows how many asymptomatics are out there? I’m guessing it’s a lot.

Test and trace won't work well if only people with symptoms are tested. Studies show up to 80% of asymptomatic cases. I think jury is still out on how sucessfully asymptomatic people actually spread the virus? We need our numbers down a lot before T&T could even be marginally effective though.

We also, along with test and trace, NEED a system that will support those who are needing to isolate. Otherwise, you get people chosing between isolation, or just chancing it as they might not have the virus, as the roof over their head and food on table is more important to them than the risk of spreading a virus that you may or may not have. Some call that selfish. I disagree. I know I would not burn down my whole life on the offchance I had it, if I was in that situation! Luckily I am not and can isolate (repeatedly if needed, but not indefinitely) but so many people live paycheck to paycheck, and they do not have the 'luxury' of being able to isolate, even if they would be willing to do so. This seems to be universally ignored in favour of calling those who don't isolate selfish and awful people. And fining them. Which, is surely pointless. If they break isolation as they cannot afford a fortnight without pay, where will the fine money come from?!