Would anyone support another national lockdown?

[RubyandBen]

Same as the last one. Schools, non essential shops, hospitality etc. stretching on for a few months. If yes, can I ask what are your personal circumstances?

The crazed ramblings of a swivel-eyed lunatic.

Personal attacks and insults are not considered to be a part of reasonable debate

Your assertion that FOOD SHORTAGES,

We already had a taste of shortages, remember!

What do you think would have happened without the March lockdown? Do you think those shortages would have magically disappeared. They would have got worse

And that's without mentionign PPE shortages

How many died because there were global PPE shortages? Quite a few already I would think

DEATHS IN THE STREET (really?....)

Yes.

Do you understand that if thousands of vulnerable people, many of them living alone, cannot call an ambulance they will die and die alone. What are they to do if services collapse? What would you do? Crawl into the street? Who would be there for you and who would touch you without PPE?

and MARTIAL LAW would result from a relaxation of lockdown measures is utterly baseless.

I didnt say "a relaxation". I am saying without lockdown

85% of COVID cases are mild/asymptomatic.

And that's why it spreads so fast

Only 304 people under 60 with no underlying conditions have succumbed to the virus. Need I go on?

Wow just wow. What are you saying here? That elderly people dont matter? That they dont require treatment? That they do not deserve palliative care, or any care, any oxygen or drugs to ease their pain. A nurse to hold their hand. There wouldn't be anyone there!

Coronavirus would not bring our country to its knees in absence of lockdown measures

It has already brought us to our knees and that's without lockdown.

What do you think would have happened if we hadnt locked down in March. The virus would have disappeared into the ether, in its own and everything would have magically got back to normal ?

I'm neutral about a 3 week lockdown, but those figures for under-60s are very misleading and disablist

The NHS statistics for Covid deaths with "existing conditions" includes ALL the conditions they monitor,
not just those that significantly increase risk, or indeed increase risk at all
So it includes e.g. those with autism, LDs, past treatment for MH as well as asthma

The NHS statistics include people with conditions that DO increase risk,
e.g. T1, T2, kidney problems and a multitude of other conditions that are NOT terminal.
but people under 60 normally live several decades with some of these conditions; they study, work and bring up families

NHS figures for total deaths with existing conditions to 30 September include e.g.

1,213 received past treatment for MH
527 LDs and / or autism
1,849 asthma

https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/10/COVID-19-total-announced-deaths-1-October-2020-weekly-file-1.xlsx

*and that's WITH lockdown (not without)

There's no point. We can be locked down. It doesn't kill the virus. We re-emerge and then infection rates go up again.. Its not gone away - we are just hiding for a while. This will be the cycle for a few years or more till either it dies away or mutates into milder or worse versions. Oh or a vaccine turns up.

Its still there whatever we do.

@AlwaysLatte

I'm getting angrier and angrier at the restrictions now. I'm getting angrier and angrier that there aren't enough restrictions. Hundreds of people are dying every day again and that will turn into thousands once more if we don't do something to stop it. It's shocking how many people don't care about that.

Ditto

@AlwaysLatte

I'm getting angrier and angrier at the restrictions now. I'm getting angrier and angrier that there aren't enough restrictions. Hundreds of people are dying every day again and that will turn into thousands once more if we don't do something to stop it. It's shocking how many people don't care about that.

Not enough restrictions?? There are MORE than enough restrictions!!

There is no sustainable path to reviving consumer spending and safely putting people back to work unless the virus can be contained.

Test Trace and Isolate is how we contain it.

If we don't want repeated Lockdowns then we must have effective TTI.

TTI is also a lot less costly in every sense than repeated lockdowns OR letting the virus rip.

Not having effective TTI is why people are dying, and why they are losing their jobs.

Adequate Test and Trace is the answer. Why don't we have that?

@Bouledeneige

There's no point. We can be locked down. It doesn't kill the virus. We re-emerge and then infection rates go up again.. Its not gone away - we are just hiding for a while. This will be the cycle for a few years or more till either it dies away or mutates into milder or worse versions. Oh or a vaccine turns up.

Its still there whatever we do.

With adequate containment it's there but at very low levels so it's easy to pounce on any new spread.

We know it can be done because so many other countries have done it.

Look now at the amount of people saying they won't abide by the restrictions and you think they give a damn about track and trace?

We could have the best track and trace and testing system in the world, but they dont give a shit anyway. It only works if people get involved but they won't.

They won't even wear a mask on the bus or in Tesco. Fat chance of them downloading an app.

It wouldn't bother me either way if we went back to full lockdown.

I will still continue to do what I want to do.

The only rule I abide by is the wearing of a mask when out shopping.

As per the news today, due to lockdowns 31% people have seen their income drop and 16% have seen a rise in their savings. So in general the 31% would be against more lockdowns and the 16% would probably support it or be neutral.

@Flaxmeadow

Look now at the amount of people saying they won't abide by the restrictions and you think they give a damn about track and trace?

We could have the best track and trace and testing system in the world, but they dont give a shit anyway. It only works if people get involved but they won't.

They won't even wear a mask on the bus or in Tesco. Fat chance of them downloading an app.

We'd have to stop indulging the whining and negativity that's for sure.

And the rule-breakers, lazy defeatists, conspiracy theorists and covid-deniers.

They're all making it worse for the rest of us and we as a society have to decide not to put up with them dragging us down any longer.

Out lives and our livelihoods, our children's childhoods and their educations are at stake and we need to do what works.

I suspect people in tier 1 are not convinced by the circuit breaker idea while us poor sods in tier 2 and 3 would find it preferable to strict restrictions with no end date.

I'd agree with that. Many of the rules just don't make sense.
Why did they encourage all the Uni students to return, unless they needed to be in labs or doing practical stuff get them distance learning.

I'm on the view this is massive, once in a century event, if the UK gets into debt to pay for it so what?

It's only in recent years we've paid off the Bill's for WW1, WW2 and the money spend on ending slavery. This is up there with those events. Who knows what other historic events we are still paying for.
But whatever we need to pay people to close businesses if they need to and pay people to self isolate properly even if that does involve paying people for odd days they don't need while they await results.

No I don't back another lock down I work on a specialist unit non covid related we had 8 patients, 4 died of those 4 all were on DNARs before covid had a co morbidity such as dementia or a progressive neurological condition it was very sad but they were expected to die shortly.
I'm wondering how many people are like this the average death of covid is 82.
Cancer screening is at all time low , which will cause many deaths, appointments for anything non covid related are delayed.
I'm worried how many people will die of a non covid related condition because of the restrictions?

I'm not sure what the answer is but we may have to come to terms with covid being around for a long time and the possibility of no vaccine.

No, absolutely not. Many Business owners have been or soon will be ruined, along with their employees. We haven't really seen the full extent of the fallout from the last lockdown yet.

To me, covid is a walk in the park compared to the damage to businesses.

No support for another National Lockdown from me or anyone else in my family\ friendship circle.

@Bikingbear

I suspect people in tier 1 are not convinced by the circuit breaker idea while us poor sods in tier 2 and 3 would find it preferable to strict restrictions with no end date.

I'd agree with that. Many of the rules just don't make sense.
Why did they encourage all the Uni students to return, unless they needed to be in labs or doing practical stuff get them distance learning.

I'm on the view this is massive, once in a century event, if the UK gets into debt to pay for it so what?

It's only in recent years we've paid off the Bill's for WW1, WW2 and the money spend on ending slavery. This is up there with those events. Who knows what other historic events we are still paying for.
But whatever we need to pay people to close businesses if they need to and pay people to self isolate properly even if that does involve paying people for odd days they don't need while they await results.

Yes i agree with you, i would even be prepared to pay a means tested covid tax once things have settled down. I think with some people a meteorite could hit the Uk and wipe Society out and they will still be demanded the pubs stay open !

i would even be prepared to pay a means tested covid tax once things have settled down.

Don't worry, the people lucky enough to still have jobs, will be.

Grudgingly from this end, if I still have a job, as I'm paying enough in as it is.

No.

The question was about a short 2 week ‘circuit breaker’ not an all out, long term lockdown. I think that’s got lost in the discussion.

At this point where I live is looking at highest restrictions. No mixing, no gyms, no leisure facilities, no pubs....if I had a choice of 2 weeks shut down with a return to SD, mask and everything open at the end of it, I would take the lockdown. Mainly because it is time limited. At the moment I am in a place with enhanced restrictions with no end in sight. That feels worse.

"Oxford University’s Professor James Naismith, the director of the Rosalind Franklin Institute, said the government’s “wait and see” approach could result in a longer lockdown.
“Sage’s advice was that a nationwide lockdown was more likely to work in terms of reducing viral spread,” said Prof Naismith. “The government has opted to wait and see if less stringent measures can avoid a severe second wave.

“There is a risk that we will end up having to lock down again, perhaps with a different name but in effect the same thing. If we do so, the duration of lockdown will be likely be longer as a result of delay.”"

It's going to come anyway. This government squandered the opportunity to in summer to avoid it. I think it's the only thing that will prevent the NHS being swamped and many more dying of cancers, clots etc etc. Yes people will also die of starvation but as I say the government have fucked up the chance to save business and lives.

@lovelemoncurd

It's going to come anyway. This government squandered the opportunity to in summer to avoid it. I think it's the only thing that will prevent the NHS being swamped and many more dying of cancers, clots etc etc. Yes people will also die of starvation but as I say the government have fucked up the chance to save business and lives.

Yep.

And we let them.

We need to stop letting them off the hook and make them implement an effective covid response.

We've given them long enough to get their act together.

Definitely not. All that would happen would be people would flock to the few things that remained open. Our supermarket queues disappeared once people were back at work. Where I woke was horrendous when people were furloughed as we were open as an ‘essential service’ with people doing really non essential things saying things like ‘I’ve got to find things to do’ this meant we had queues and people hanging around which completely defeats the object

Yes

For 2/3 weeks to buy us another 28 days and reduce the pressure on beds in the NHS

And then another over Christmas to again but time

Both of these ^^ have the least impact on work/schools