Chris Whitty saying even tier 3 probably wont be enough to reduce the R

[KetoPenguin]

What do you think this means for areas in tier 3, total lockdown? How soon do you think this would happen and how likely is it for tier 2 areas to be upgraded to the same level? Do you think the much rumoured circuit breaker over half term is likely at least in these areas?

@RafaIsTheKingOfClay

It was a projection of what could happen if the doubling time stayed at the same rate as it was at the time. Vallance did quite clearly state it wasn’t a prediction.

Exactly. I understood him totally. This could happen if left to rip, yet people are on the one hand complaining about restrictions yet on the other saying 'ha vallance was wrong it didn't happen!' Yes, that is the point

Must have to have nerves of steel to be a CMO or a CSA, i bet they feel like saying 'ffs are you stupid' to the constant criticism and 'bullshit' allegations.

When you say paying for their mistakes though, what currency would you prefer....your money or your life?

At this point I think death doesn't seem to bad if life is an existence.

We shut down the economy the first time round so the government would have time to put a test and trace system in place. They did. But, despite the £12bn it has cost, it's still not as effective as it should be.

Where do we go from here? I'd like to see more, faster and easily available testing as well as better support for people who may have it - or whose children may have it –but rely on going out to work for their income. That would enable them to stay at home. Having high levels of Covid is killing the economy anyway – as someone said upthread, people will just stay at home if they can and even if restaurants etc don't have to close they're probably not doing well anyway with the limits on numbers/social distancing. Investing the cash in properly dealing with it would be money well spent.

@jasjas1973

It is so disappointing to see the constant lack of support for what is a difficult situation. I'd like to see them ram compliance down people's necks at the press conferences because it is clear that is the problem. People aren't social distancing because civil liberties

Nonsense! IF the govt played their part with a functioning test, trace & isolate system plus tested twice weekly healthcare staff, we'd then identify hotspots in time for local restrictions to work..... then sure, i would support them.

But they gave this work to individuals and companies with no experience in the field of public health.

Nothing to do with civil liberties, everything to do with incompetence.

This.

I don't blame whitty for everything just that advising lockdown after lockdown is the answer.

It is so disappointing to see the constant lack of support for what is a difficult situation

When we have a prime minister announcing a series of measures that will devastate the economy, followed immediately by our CMO saying they won’t work, what exactly am I supposed to be supporting?

If there’s a “circuit breaker” lockdown it has to be national. There’s just no circumstances in which it’s acceptable for schools and workplaces to be closed and travel banned in the North while people can still pop out for drinks with 5 friends in Soho.

@jasjas1973 you seem determined to ignore both me and Lurkalot. I will repeat my previous post in which I tagged you.

@jasjas1973 this isn't the USA. Civil servants aren't appointees of the sitting government. They serve whatever flavour of party they're stuck with, and have to give impartial advice.

I know a passionate remainer who is a civil servant working in the department for Brexit. It's actually messing with his mental health

Ugh. Bolding fail.

'IF the govt played their part with a functioning test, trace & isolate system'

We're testing more than any other country in Europe.People need to adhere to the instructions to isolate though when they have symptoms, many aren't. Compliance is the problem yet people don't like to accept that.

It's easier to blame Johnson than accept that for every vulnerable person who is lonely, depressed at not seeing their family there will be thousands of super spreaders not socially distancing and carrying on as normal. The health and well-being of older people or those with disabilities/chronic health conditions does not interest them at all.

Batch testing, better financial support for people who need to self isolate so they don’t have to make a choice between staying at home & putting food on the table. Maybe voluntary isolation centres for those who test positive. That would help reduce in home transmission.

Why is it unacceptable to have areas where there is low infection working to subsidise those who have to stay in?

Personally I would roadblock areas with low cases and require quarantine enter into them. Then at least some of the country will have some economic activity. This can subsidise places where people have to isolate.

'There’s just no circumstances in which it’s acceptable for schools and workplaces to be closed and travel banned in the North while people can still pop out for drinks with 5 friends in Soho.'

Of course there is and people need to get over this mindset that "its not fair!'. It is all shit but of course if there are few cases in one county but thousands in other areas then it is those areas that need further action.

The inventor of the PCR test, Kary Mullis, claimed that this is inappropriate to detect viral infection?

It is fundamentally flawed for the purpose and should not be used.

The propensity for producing false positives is staggering.

This is concerning as the number of positive cases is the catalyst for the measures being implemented.

Don't take anyone's word for anything; carry out your own research.

@saraclara So Whitty wasn't appointed by Johnson? and Johnson hasn't got rid of civil servants whom he doesn't agree with?

Aside i didn't see your previous tagged post, i don't have emails pushed to phone - so your assumption was wrong.

@TrustTheGeneGenie

When you say paying for their mistakes though, what currency would you prefer....your money or your life?

At this point I think death doesn't seem to bad if life is an existence.

Bare life is miserable. I agree. But life has always been and will always be about survival. Ask the virus, if it could talk it would tell you this!

For those who want no restrictions and for the virus to be left unchallenged, it becomes survival of the fittest. The Blind Watchmaker. But as humans we have evolved to control nature, precisely because our evolution depends upon it, and we evolved because we could. Its dialectical. This is why we must find something to control this virus, because we don't want life to simply resemble bare life or a competition to survive. But survival is the precondition, without it no life at all.

I might agree with you if I was 85 or 18. As it is I have dependents and quite selfishly I want to be around to assure myself of their survival!

I'm interested in this idea of punishment though. Could anyone please explain how we are being punished?

We might be testing more but are we testing the right people? Do we have worried low risk people repeatedly testing while higher risk people who don’t quite meet the criteria still go about everywhere (not their fault as guidance is not clear). Maybe we need to get medical professionals to refer for tests - but maybe these are in short supply too.

I’ve done plenty of reading about it and looked at numbers from surveillance both here and in other countries. I’ve yet to see any evidence false positives are a significant issue.

We're testing more than any other country in Europe

But are we?
Numerous reports of multiple tests being done on the same person & inc antibody tests in the figures plus there appears to be significant delays in getting the results out.

Also, are we testing the right people? Care home staff are still not being routinely tested (only if symptomatic) CH in Devon said they are waiting up to 7 days for results.

@TrustTheGeneGenie If you are genuinely thinking that death is preferable to ‘bare existence’ then you need to seek medical support for your mental health. If it’s hyperbole then you need to think about what a bare existence actually is. There are people walking five miles a day to get water and existing on minimal food, and still fighting desperately to stay alive. A bare existence isn’t only meeting six mates in the pub for a year.

@ColonSemiColon if the only way you have been affected is that you can only meet 6 people in the pub, then you are very lucky indeed.

People who talk about false positives as if they’re a genuine problem are generally only five minutes from talking about pizzagate and Hilary Clinton’s emails.

@SoUtterlyGroundDown No, actually. My husband’s funeral during lockdown was limited to 15 people and now I’m in an area with high restrictions. But thanks for assuming.

[quote jasjas1973]@saraclara So Whitty wasn't appointed by Johnson? and Johnson hasn't got rid of civil servants whom he doesn't agree with?

Aside i didn't see your previous tagged post, i don't have emails pushed to phone - so your assumption was wrong.[/quote]
Whitty was appointed by the Cabinet Office (the Civil Service).

A PM sacking a Civil Servant is very rare, because it would cause such a stink. But in the tenure of this govt, several high ranking civil servants have been 'frozen out' by ministers until they've resigned. Dominic Cummings is working hard on this, because the present govt doesn't want people giving them impartial advice. It wants yes men.

[quote ColonSemiColon]@SoUtterlyGroundDown No, actually. My husband’s funeral during lockdown was limited to 15 people and now I’m in an area with high restrictions. But thanks for assuming.[/quote]
So why are you assuming that only being able to go to the pub with 6 other people is the only issue that @TrustTheGeneGenie is having?