Downing Street is live now

[Jenasaurus]

Johnathan Van Tan is provided an update from Downing Street. Not looking good.

There were no lockdowns for decades of polio ... or a myriad of childhood diseases which harm, maim and even kill children even today. So I'm guessing if it was children we would do precisely what we do now - nothing but wait for a vaccine years down the line.
I’d bet no one was calling people ‘children killers’ in the way they’re labelled ‘granny killers’ so blithely either. It’s the dismissive language which is the problem, not the demographic it affects. It’s was simply an example. I’m surprised that was taken so literally

I very much think people WOULD be called "child killers" if it were the other way round. It's not an unusual turn of phrase, is it?

Historically children have always been shat on from a great height. British society, in general, is not very good at caring for its vulnerable.

I live in Scotland and so far the only thing that's come from our new restrictions and that DH is back on furlough. He's probably going to loose his job at the end of the month. I hope these measures do work because if they don't we're all being fucked over for nothing.

Lockdowns did occur during past pandemics at peak infection times. I think during the 1918 flu pandemic schools were closed. Of course we can’t lockdown forever but we are only 7 months in to this one and facing a bleak winter and there is very promising data on vaccines and treatments being available by spring .

@Ryerossy

Historically children have always been shat on from a great height. British society, in general, is not very good at caring for its vulnerable.

THIS and if you're child has SEN or a disability god help you. No one cares much about their education, or the fact that Local Authorities spend thousands denying those children the right to fair access to education.

It’s the people who say, ‘I’m not going to be labelled a ‘granny killer’ because I want to shop/go to the park/not wear a mask’. If you replace ‘granny‘ with ‘baby’, I doubt anyone would be using that kind of language in such a dismissive way. That’s what I have a problem with, it’s horrible

To anyone feeling like they are teetering on the brink of panic: I have been there. I know I am suggestible to fear inducing messaging. After the last airing of the double act Wallace and Whitty: "You Can't Take Individual Risks" I accidentally dowsed myself in trolley cleaner thinking it was hand sanitizer in a frenzied attempt to not catch or spread covid. I also noticed people on the streets were giving others a clear 2 metres again for the first time since lockdown. Fear is quite effective but at what cost?

I am not watching Boris tonight as tempting as it is. I will wear a mask, wash my hands, limit my contact and be sensible. I will not live in fear.

I wish the messaging was uniting rather than polarising. I wish they could use positive reinforcement rather than fear. But they aren't so I am not watching it. I know there are many others out there whose mental health will suffer as a result of this. Join me in boycotting this and pretty much all the news. Live carefully because it's sensible, not because you are afraid.

Thank you OP for this thread and your updates.

@Ryerossy

I very much think people WOULD be called "child killers" if it were the other way round. It's not an unusual turn of phrase, is it?

Do we call older people with whooping cough "killers"? No, we don't and we never have. It's dealt with calmly and pragmatically - with the onus placed on the mother to shield her baby until that child has been fully vaccinated.

Do we call older people with whooping cough "killers"? No, we don't and we never have. It's dealt with calmly and pragmatically - with the onus placed on the mother to shield her baby until that child has been fully vaccinated.

Pretty much exactly what I said upthread! I maintain that if this illness was a killer of babies, you can bet your bottom dollar that most parents of babies wouldn't be going outdoors. They would shield their babies until a vaccine was present. I certainly would.

There have always been instances of (mainly localised) quarantine, things shutting down etc during epidemics in the past - look up polio and smallpox epidemics in 20th-century Europe. Doing these things has always been a technique of infection control and of preventing the terrible results of a disease either very contagious or with dreadful consequences (or in the worst case both) spreading unchecked. Those who read Enid Blyton will remember references to characters having to go into quarantine for measles or mumps.

The difference now is in the scale. I don't think it's helpful to dramatise this as some kind of battle of the generations.

@Jenasaurus

Does anyone know if this is instead of Boris Johnsons update?

No. Boris will be speaking later. They seem to have started a new wheeze of softening us all up for bad news from BJ by sending the medics to scare the living daylights out of us first.

@BrazenlyDefying

responsibility on every citizen to defeat this virus and get under control.

Fucking ridiculous. It's a FUCKING VIRUS. I haven't the power to defeat it, because I am not fucking wonder woman. And neither has anyone else. This whole pushing the responsibility for managing it onto the general public? Just no. Yes we should be taking responsibility for our own actions just as we always should do. But if things run out of control that's not my "fault". All the looking to blame, point fingers, shame the "covidiots" and the fecking Covid Marshalls makes me sick.

This is nobody's fault.

Well, who was it who appointed Dido Harding?

Because an effective Test and Trace would have made a big difference in the past 6 weeks.

I can continue if you like?

@Ryerossy

I very much think people WOULD be called "child killers" if it were the other way round. It's not an unusual turn of phrase, is it?

My dad was always told he killed his baby niece by giving her whooping cough when he was 5. Really sad and it must have affected him because thats how he told me many years later, even more sad as my great aunt couldnt have any more children. To blame another child for killing a baby via infection is pretty harsh.

I just think the whole rhetoric is stupid tbh. I could have had norovirus without knowing it last winter, gone to see my granddad, he could have caught it and he could have died from it. Would that have made me a killer? Why is covid any different?

As nearly everything has been leaked in advance the only issue for most areas is what tier they’ll be in. I hate the way they do this leaking. It causes uncertainty, fear, and distrust

Excellent post @bumblingbovine49

I could be wrong but I don't think they were testing hospital admissions early on

No, they weren’t - only for those severely symptomatic. My mother was in hospital in March - April with double pneumonia and they did t test her!

@Jenasaurus

People being encouraged to still use hospital/gp and emergency services for other conditions.

It's shit. I had sudden onset of a potentially fatal condition 3 months ago. Tests should be done immediately to diagnose type I or type II. The hospital specialty that runs these tests are not expecting to admit any patients until at least March 2021. If I don't recognise symptoms prior to collapsing I'm fucked. I cannot even get a GP appointment to get more details about how to prevent a collapse. There is next to no information online about it. But hey, thank God it's not cancer or covid eh? The paramedics, who have visited frequently, have tried everything they can think of to get me admitted to a ward. I feel very let down.

But if it was, people wouldn't be saying 'Oh, it only affects babies the rest of us should just carry on'

Nor would they be saying ‘oh they’ve hardly lived their lives, they haven’t developed as a person yet, their lives are lesser’ (the converse of they’ve lived their lives / would have died anyway narrative)

Put a picture of a turned-off television on your social media, like people did when Trump became president. I did this last time Saint Boris was spouting his drivel.

Currently Covid is the third highest cause of deaths after heart disease and cancer in the US. You can quibble all you like about 'definitions of cause of death' but anyone who does not see that something that killed exactly zero people this time last year in the US is now the third biggest killer in the country is I feel missing the 'bigger picture' In that context, moaning about how we define 'died of or with covid' is my idea of 'fiddling while Rome burns!!

Too true!

@StrangeAddiction

Long Covid in all ages.

I feel totally conflicted. I pulled my dc from school about a week before Boris announced schools closing in March and at the minute I've got no choice but to send them**. My anxiety is creeping up again.

** I don't want to deregister them and tbh I shouldn't have to during a pandemic.

I agree. If provisions were made for those of us who would rather keep our children at home (due to family members who are ECV) then the other children in schools would be able to social distance more effectively.

@Ryerossy

I just think the whole rhetoric is stupid tbh. I could have had norovirus without knowing it last winter, gone to see my granddad, he could have caught it and he could have died from it. Would that have made me a killer? Why is covid any different?

Difference is about risk/likelihood etc. Last year, you'd be unlikely to have norovirus if you hadn't been in hospital or on a cruise ship or a hotel. They were pretty limited outbreaks in few places where people were in close contact for relatively long periods of time.

Now, we all know Covid is out there and potentially growing exponentially. It's spread in "normal" places like shops and pubs, not in hospitals and cruise ships, and can be spread in minutes by casual contact.

See the difference?

People of all ages are ignoring the rules and lots have been since the very beginning.

At the weekend in a supermarket I counted 8 people (various ages) wearing masks under their nose. I gave up counting after that.

I know my neighbours each side have never really abided by the rules. One side are early 30's and near the start of lock down they were meant to be in isolation as one of their children had symptoms. They still went shopping and still had friends and family round.

The other side are mid 40's and while they abided by the rules through most of the lock down, they then started having friends and family round indoors and in the garden and certainly in the garden they were all sitting very close together.

They were on holiday abroad last week and posted photos on facebook. There were pictures of them with people they met there all standing close together, arms round each other, no masks. Totally ignoring the rule of 6.

To make matters worse she is a nurse!