Downing Street is live now

[Jenasaurus]

Johnathan Van Tan is provided an update from Downing Street. Not looking good.

There's also people who made the most of the summer knowing winter would be like this.

I wish I did. I still shut myself away most of the summer when cases were very low.

same here

@Ryerossy

Trouble is they don't live in a bubble, so "their personal risk" isn't really valid. They'll have family, friends, work colleagues, customers, etc who they come into contact with and who they may have infected. "Personal risk" is fine if they take precautions to protect all those around them, but they probably don't.

I'm not arguing on the rights or wrongs of their way of thinking, I'm just saying that this is how people think. People are fed up. They will not comply with a second lockdown. Look at the North- it isn't working.

They'll have no choice but to comply if pubs are shut down. They simply won't be open. That's what is needed now. Some enforcement. If they don't have the police/council resources, then they need to close things down. Pubs being forced to close is easy to enforce. That leaves police/council officers free to spend time enforcing private parties etc.

Some college based Unis have failed miserably to enforce restrictions in their campus college bars, where some have had no social distancing, no mask wearing, no restrictions on numbers etc. If the Unis have been found incapable of enforcing the rules, then those places need to be closed down. If the doors are locked, then enforcement becomes a lot easier!

@loobyloo1234

Did they say how many of the people in hospital with Covid are in there specifically because of Covid? How many of them were admitted for something else but also tested positive upon admission? How many were already in hospital with something else, then caught Covid in hospital?

Of course not. Because then we'd see how much of a farce this really is and how much of a farce they've really made of it all

You do realise covid numbers are growing all over Europe too? It's not just the UK who are struggling to balance controlling a pandemic against ruining the economy.

@Ryerossy

Initially my thought was that the vast majority of people have someone they care about who is older (especially if we are considering 60 plus as ‘older’!) or more vulnerable even if it’s asthma or diabetes and not necessarily a serious medical issue. I’ve come across lots of young, healthy people who are cautious purely because of their grandma or whatever. That’s just my experience and I’m aware it’s anecdotal.

We could do with some good Chinese style enforcement of mask wearing and virus compliance. That would soon get things under control just like the virus is in china and Vietnam.

And what I'm seeing on a daily basis is young people being very conscientious around careful hand sanitizing and mask usage and the elderly being the bigger flouters of both

Totally disagree, round here completely the opposite.

We are 'elderly', came back from abroad, I'm on day 13 of 14 quarantine and haven't set foot outside the door.
We are very careful and follow all the rules, all the guidance and basically work hard at not passing anything on to anyone.
When I go out shopping, every single older person is masked up.

My neighbours with teens/twenties ... well, you wouldn't know there had been a lockdown, they just carried on with life as normal. They'vve had lots of young people round from day one

I don't understand how Nightingale hospitals can help if there is nobody to staff them. The normal hospitals are already understaffed and we can't simply magic up more qualified doctors and nurses.

@Wherehavetheteletubbiesgone

We could do with some good Chinese style enforcement of mask wearing and virus compliance. That would soon get things under control just like the virus is in china and Vietnam.

I assume you are jesting.

However, there are some people on MN who would lap up the drama of it, and be practically wetting themselves at the anticipation of a PROPER lockdown, preferably with Army on the streets. With guns.

Go out partying this week

Go to your grandmas funeral 2-3 weeks later

Fun

Ridiculous

Yes, it is - you wouldn’t be able to get a funeral that quickly

Or punishments for breach like they have in Indonesia!

@Jenasaurus

Just announced that there are more people in hospital with Covid that there were before they decided to start the lockdown in March

That stood out to me but on the chart it rocketed in the next week in April just after 23 March

We are not near that peak

Sorry - that was to @Wherehavetheteletubbiesgone

We could do with some good Chinese style enforcement of mask wearing and virus compliance. That would soon get things under control just like the virus is in china and Vietnam.

I thought it a good briefing

Calm and data driven

@Roussette

And what I'm seeing on a daily basis is young people being very conscientious around careful hand sanitizing and mask usage and the elderly being the bigger flouters of both

Totally disagree, round here completely the opposite.

We are 'elderly', came back from abroad, I'm on day 13 of 14 quarantine and haven't set foot outside the door.
We are very careful and follow all the rules, all the guidance and basically work hard at not passing anything on to anyone.
When I go out shopping, every single older person is masked up.

My neighbours with teens/twenties ... well, you wouldn't know there had been a lockdown, they just carried on with life as normal. They'vve had lots of young people round from day one

But you've been abroad when so many have chosen to sacrifice their holiday plans or travelling to see family, you have gone to another country and come into contact with lord knows how many people on your journey. It's hypocritical for you to slate people for seeing friends.

Here is link to watch the briefing if you missed it -

m.youtube.com/watch?v=fGoKsrWw9i0

don't understand how Nightingale hospitals can help if there is nobody to staff them. The normal hospitals are already understaffed and we can't simply magic up more qualified doctors and nurses.

They can't, but it looks good doesn't it, and then they will blame someone else when they cannot operate as there's no staff.

You only have to read the utterly selfish comments on this thread alone, together with the desperate straw-clutching of the anecdotes and "well, she's got Covid but she's fine" stuff to know that for some reason England (because I don't think the other bits are so full of fools) is going to be in this shit for a long time yet.

Why are people continuing to insist the high rates are just due to increased testing. And it’s all smoke and mirrors or something. They are trying to warn us that the situation is looking bad

@Oneandzero

Last time around, my A&E doctor best friend said she had never felt so bored in her entire career. It was tumble weed. Large busy urban hospital in SE England. Idea that overwhelmed was a joke.

Whereas our friend a consultant medic at a busy SE hospital didn't really want to think about work outside of it because making decisions about patient's medicine in ITU hour after hour, shift after shift seemed to take it out of them.

Thanks for the link @Inkpaperstars.
That was a very sensible and honest briefing I think.

@BrazenlyDefying I assume you are jesting.

Absolutely not look at the great success those two counties China and Vietnam have had. They rigorously enforce the rules no exceptions for not wearing a mask and surprise surprise they dealt with it much better and have very low infection rates. Compare that to the west and it shows who is managing this better. Even democracies like japan and Korea wear masks better than us and have far more compliant populations who don't look for excuses not to follow the rules.

You do realise covid numbers are growing all over Europe too? It's not just the UK who are struggling to balance controlling a pandemic against ruining the economy.

Yes I do thanks. Im not talking about the rest of Europe though - I'm talking about the UK. And the lack of transparency

I'm not seeing younger people complying at all.

In the last 3 weeks, a group of young males grooming their beards (I'm not even joking) outside the toilets in a narrow corridor in IKEA, no social distancing or masks in sight. Now I know they may all have disabilities but think it is more likely that they didn't want to cover their gorgeous faces with masks.

A young man in mcdonalds waiting for his takeaway, no mask, was fed up of his wait so started to open other peoples food to look in to see if it was his and thereby breathing on the food. It wasn't mine but I alerted McDonalds staff to it and they threw it away, didn't raise it with him though!

I'm not saying that all older people comply but I.haven't seen such flagrant breaches from the older generation just the invincible young.

@Scaraffito

don't understand how Nightingale hospitals can help if there is nobody to staff them. The normal hospitals are already understaffed and we can't simply magic up more qualified doctors and nurses.

They can't, but it looks good doesn't it, and then they will blame someone else when they cannot operate as there's no staff.

Yes another reason why I can't actually take the government or scientists seriously.

And before anyone jumps on me and tells me I am a 'granny killer' I don't dispute the common sense attitude of limiting interactions where possible and continue to do so. But honestly this yo yo ing that are doing on data, restrictions and guidance is making me turn off and I don't think I am alone I'm feeling like that.

Sorry I didn't mean I don't see them complying at all, I meant all of the time as opposed to older people. Reminder to self to re read before posting!