Downing Street is live now

[Jenasaurus]

Johnathan Van Tan is provided an update from Downing Street. Not looking good.

So fed up of this shit now

I think people were prepared to do the previous lockdown because we believed it would give time to sort out a proper temporary fix like track and trace, and that we could get the numbers right down and keep them there. There's a sense of all in this together which went out the window after the Dominic Cummings thing and I don't think they'll get that back.

yes, exactly this.

Did they say how many of the people in hospital with Covid are in there specifically because of Covid? How many of them were admitted for something else but also tested positive upon admission? How many were already in hospital with something else, then caught Covid in hospital?

Also, at what stage in the illness are people now being admitted to hospital? Back in March, we were told to basically sit at home until you can't breathe, is that still the case or are they accepting milder cases in hospital now?

All of these points need to be answered, rather than them just shrieking that hospital numbers are as high as they were in March.

@Ryerossy

It's not about them it's about who they pass it on to

Again, people's altruism towards others they don't know is not going to last for an indefinite period of time.

If I'm a 19 year old student, and my grandparents are dead, and my parents are both in their fifties with no underlying health conditions, and I have no friends or close relatives who are otherwise vulnerable, do you think I can be expected to effectively put my life on hold for an unspecified period of time, in order to avoid giving the virus to someone I don't know and have no emotional attachment to?

That's not me, btw, but I imagine it's how a lot of younger people (and others) are thinking right now.

i agree

Last time around, any NHS trust sending patients to a Nightingale hospital also had to provide the the Trust's own staff to the Nightingale, to care for them. No wonder the Nightingales had so few patients and so much money wasted when the Trusts didn't have the staff to spare.

Why should it be any different this time?

@PicsInRed

Maybe people will start to bloody listen now and take some personal responsibility.

I thought we were all doing that when we were "eating out to help out", heading bravely off to uni after a totally shite final year, paying for UK mini breaks, patronising local shops, and returning to the office to sustain the city centres.

Now we're all a bunch of ignorant, selfish virus spreaders. "Meh" is all I have left.

Trouble is the people doing all those things you highlight weren't adhering to social distancing, hand washing, and other precautions that were still in place. Far too many thought it was over and just returned to normal life.

@TheUnwindingCableCar

It's really not that hard for people to not go out in groups and keep a distance.

Or at least it shouldn't be that hard but here we are.

It isn’t just that though. Tier 3 would ban you from seeing family entirely.

Far too many thought it was over and just returned to normal life.

Actually I think a lot of people suddenly realised that it wasn't going to be over for the forseeable future and therefore calculated their own personal risk and decided that, on balance, they'd prefer to live a normal life.

If it’s tier 3 will there still be support bubbles does anyone know

@Ryerossy

Far too many thought it was over and just returned to normal life.

Actually I think a lot of people suddenly realised that it wasn't going to be over for the forseeable future and therefore calculated their own personal risk and decided that, on balance, they'd prefer to live a normal life.

Absolutely this!!

Last time around, my A&E doctor best friend said she had never felt so bored in her entire career. It was tumble weed.
Large busy urban hospital in SE England.
Idea that overwhelmed was a joke.

Our neighbours daughter in law just tested positive when going in to have her baby. Zilch symptoms. No doubt she's included in the figures

Why wouldn’t she be?

@TheUnwindingCableCar

Maybe people will start to bloody listen now and take some personal responsibility.

No the general public can't be blamed 100% for the spread but everyone can take some personal responsibility and do why they can to help get this under control.

It's like when they say they will make an announcement on the Monday and everyone says "oh now people will go out for one last night out" And the government get blamed.

Why? Why can't those people think well you know what, we should probably start to rein it in a bit right now and see what they announce on Monday instead of going out and not caring about anyone else.

Yes you're right but people are people (many are idiots) and that has to be factored into decisions made. You can't change how people are.

@Aridane

Our neighbours daughter in law just tested positive when going in to have her baby. Zilch symptoms. No doubt she's included in the figures

Why wouldn’t she be?

I mean included in the covid hospital admissions, not just the general case numbers. She hasn't been admitted for covid and is not ill. We need better figures to understand who is in because they're ill and who has tested positive on admission for something else but aren't ill with it.

We are in the South and our area in the growth map was dark brown, i.e very high growth...Ill be glad if they put us under restrictions, weve gone from 30 cases per 100000 to 100 per 100000 in a week, so its basically tripled. I think if they act now we will be out of it sooner than if they let it rip

@Ryerossy

Far too many thought it was over and just returned to normal life.

Actually I think a lot of people suddenly realised that it wasn't going to be over for the forseeable future and therefore calculated their own personal risk and decided that, on balance, they'd prefer to live a normal life.

Trouble is they don't live in a bubble, so "their personal risk" isn't really valid. They'll have family, friends, work colleagues, customers, etc who they come into contact with and who they may have infected. "Personal risk" is fine if they take precautions to protect all those around them, but they probably don't.

@Ryerossy

Far too many thought it was over and just returned to normal life.

Actually I think a lot of people suddenly realised that it wasn't going to be over for the forseeable future and therefore calculated their own personal risk and decided that, on balance, they'd prefer to live a normal life.

This. And what I'm seeing on a daily basis is young people being very conscientious around careful hand sanitizing and mask usage and the elderly being the bigger flouters of both.

Obviously the elderly who dont comply are making a choice around quality of life, but I just dont see the point of fucking the entire country when so many of our youth are doing their level best whilst watching their futures flushed and so many of the most vulnerable won't even bother using a bit of santiser and popping an actual mask on.

@Ryerossy

Far too many thought it was over and just returned to normal life.

Actually I think a lot of people suddenly realised that it wasn't going to be over for the forseeable future and therefore calculated their own personal risk and decided that, on balance, they'd prefer to live a normal life.

There's also people who made the most of the summer knowing winter would be like this.

I wish I did. I still shut myself away most of the summer when cases were very low.

@TheUnwindingCableCar

Go out partying this week.

Go to your grandmas funeral 2-3 weeks later.

Fun.

Ridiculous

The "tiers" are ridiculous. Different areas will have different reasons for the growth in infections and will need different measures in place. Having "tiers" of restrictions is a very blunt instrument that will put restrictions in place where they're not necessary. Each hotspot should be looked at (not by LA boundary, but by town) and tailored restrictions imposed directly targeted at the reasons for spread in that town.

Trouble is they don't live in a bubble, so "their personal risk" isn't really valid. They'll have family, friends, work colleagues, customers, etc who they come into contact with and who they may have infected. "Personal risk" is fine if they take precautions to protect all those around them, but they probably don't.

I'm not arguing on the rights or wrongs of their way of thinking, I'm just saying that this is how people think. People are fed up. They will not comply with a second lockdown. Look at the North- it isn't working.

I wonder what the threshold is for admissions compared to last time (do you lips needs to be blue now?), also as they are testing every patient in hospital now who are in for other things, do the figures include those? I am not saying something needs to be done as it's rising, but some of the statements without the proper info and context seem a bit .

They'll have family, friends, work colleagues, customers, etc who they come into contact with and who they may have infected

But yet again, if you don't have vulnerable family members or friends, you're basically counting on people's altruism towards others they don't know and have no emotional attachment to as the sole driving factor behind curtailing social aspects of their lives.

I don't think, for the vast majority, it is enough of an incentive.

My mother is in Liverpool, 76 and was shielding last time

She’s already said she’s not only not going to shield but she won’t be telling her friends they aren’t allowed to meet up and she’ll still continue to drive them shopping

Personally I’m in the “let it rip” camp so I only argue with her out of habit and because what gets me is she’s the first to say the government should be doing something.

Did they say how many of the people in hospital with Covid are in there specifically because of Covid? How many of them were admitted for something else but also tested positive upon admission? How many were already in hospital with something else, then caught Covid in hospital?

Of course not. Because then we'd see how much of a farce this really is and how much of a farce they've really made of it all