Rule breakers- do you not worry about passing the virus to older relatives?

[Chaotic45]

I see more and more mumsnet posts and comments IRL from people sick of the rules, and saying that they will not be following them.

Lots of people are saying they will visit their parents and grandparents even where this means breaking a rule or law.

I do understand why they feel like this. It's not my approach, but I accept that we do all have the right to make our own choices.

What I don't understand though, is why these people are not afraid of unwittingly passing Covid to their relatives? DH and I are extremely careful, but DS is 14 and in a bubble of 200+ kids in his school year. There is no social distancing within his bubble, so we are effectively in a bubble with 200+ families and completely at the mercy of their choices and their luck or bad luck in catching and passing on the virus.

So if I choose to see relatives, especially indoors I feel I do have a risk of passing Covid onto them and arguably being the cause of them becoming extremely unwell or even dying. I wouldn't be able to forgive myself for this.

Do those breaking the rules not worry about this?

Is it that simple? If hospital beds are taken up by the elderly, what happens when the virus hits someone, say, aged 45 who could have been saved but the system is so overloaded, decisions can’t be made quick enough or we are back to the situation where people are left at home as long as possible?

I agree with this. So many saying “it’s their/my decision” - a pretty selfish one surely? If everyone thought this way then it runs the risk of the NHS being overwhelmed and other people not getting the care they need. Isn’t this what the whole point of distancing is? It’s not about “passing it to your gran”. It’s about keeping those most at risk out of hospital so that the system isn’t overwhelmed.

Granted it doesn’t seem like we’re near that yet, but hopefully because many people ARE still taking precautions with those most at risk.

So you'd leave an elderly relative alone for months? Of course you wouldn't.

People can do what they like I guess but the irony is if they get ill they will be expecting support from NHS services. Such an entitled attitude.

“ If everyone thought this way then it runs the risk of the NHS being overwhelmed and other people not getting the care they need. Isn’t this what the whole point of distancing is? It’s not about “passing it to your gran”. It’s about keeping those most at risk out of hospital so that the system isn’t overwhelmed. ”

I am well aware of this but no one cared last year or the year before when the NHS was overwhelmed over the winter. It was accepted that continuous cuts were putting the health service under enormous strain, but people were still happy to vote Tory or visit their elderly relatives. This is not necessarily a reason to break rules, but it is a reason to stop with the stupid “selfishness” arguments when no one gave a shit before

Why is expecting support from the NHS services and 'entitled attitude'?

The NHS is there for all of us and funded by all of us. Even if we do things that some people disapprove of.

I am older....well, 60's.
I don't have anyone older to worry about.
As for younger people, well, we are all responsible for our own health. Happy to choose to meet with anyone outdoors and in the garden, I decide about who I see and when and whether indoors or not. Happily gave my younger relatives lifts in the car, we all wore masks.
I've had COVID anyway and it wasn't family that gave it to me. If I get it again that's because I choose to live a more normal life, it isn't "because" of someone else.

@Hyperfish101

People can do what they like I guess but the irony is if they get ill they will be expecting support from NHS services. Such an entitled attitude.

You bet! Everyone is 'entitled' to the NHS. Would you say the same to smokers or the obese?

@Hyperfish101

People can do what they like I guess but the irony is if they get ill they will be expecting support from NHS services. Such an entitled attitude.

Well yeah, they are entitled to NHS support, that’s why they pay their taxes. I think people have forgotten that the purpose of the NHS is to treat the public. Treatment isn’t based on worthiness. They don’t refuse to treat smokers for lung cancer.

People can do what they like I guess but the irony is if they get ill they will be expecting support from NHS services. Such an entitled attitude

Oh don't talk such shite.

@amicissimma

Why is expecting support from the NHS services and 'entitled attitude'?

The NHS is there for all of us and funded by all of us. Even if we do things that some people disapprove of.

So much for "Protect The (finite resources of the) NHS" hey?

If the 4.5 million people Shielding all took that attitude then there is unlikely be a hospital bed for you or your children if you need one.

There are less than 200,000 hospital beds. And Covid patients are often in them for months.

It behoves us all to do our best not to catch it or spread it.

Not be careless and drain scarce resources that everyone may need but not all of us will get.

People are sometimes up in arms about all the health problems that are being missed because we are focused on Covid.

The careless who spread the coronavirus ensure that the hospitals are under pressure and more things are missed.

What happens to the car accidents and heart attacks when all the ITU beds are full of Covid patients?

Come on. We know this stuff. It's basic.

this attitude is seen as kind of insulting - no one gave a shit in previous years, and continued to vote for Tory cuts

As insulting as it is, they would still prefer behavior that goes with it to the alternative, as I think you well know. What you're referring to is a "stop clapping, start reforming" and to twist it in this context is also offensive.

14:44Hercwasonaroll

Are teachers nursing covid patients? I wasn't aware of saying anything about them.

I wouldn't go near my parents with symptoms obviously but to them they just want to get on with their lives and really have a sense of perspective over the whole thing. If they didn't want to see us then clearly we would respect that! But they do.

We are not here to protect the NHS, the NHS is here to protect us.

@MaxNormal

We are not here to protect the NHS, the NHS is here to protect us.

Which it seems to be failing spectacularly at in some cases.

I am clinically extremely vulnerable. My 17yo is in sixth form and working in a shop. Hardly any of his mates are socially distancing anywhere. I don’t want to restrict any more of his life, but I am at very high risk if I catch it. I worry about him having that on his conscience. It’s unbelievably hard.

I'm not a rule breaker, but today is the first time I think I might be, if rules tighten. Just had my Mum over for dinner, as assume this will be the last time it's allowed for a while. I am so gutted for my 3 year old, if so. My 65 year old Mum is a TA in a primary school, so can be in a room with 30 kids every day, but not in a room.with her two grandkids (if rules change this week). I'm beginning to think I'll not stick to that. We don't see anyone else. She's the only family my kids are close to. I can't do it to them again. It's insane.

We are not here to protect the NHS, the NHS is here to protect us.

That's true. At the same time, would you like some rainbow sprinkles with your magic faraway tree healthcare system?

@LeanishMachine please locate the bit of legislation that said one exercise a day and post it here

If not (I'll give a clue. You can't), kindly stop banging on about it.

65 year old Mum is a TA in a primary school, so can be in a room with 30 kids every day, but not in a room.with her two grandkids (if rules change this week).

I see your point entirely. That does seem absurd for you to stick to.

We pulled DC from nursery so they can see family safely now numbers have risen. We could move the grandparents in with us so we get the food delivered to us then distribute. It's not different to them living with us from a risk point of view so against the rules but no riskier as they now only need to go for countryside walks no food shopping

"So much for "Protect The (finite resources of the) NHS" hey?"

OK. New NHS. Glance at mobile phone while driving, crash into something and injure yourself badly? Too bad, you shouldn't be so thoughtless. Someone else might need the NHS resource you would use. Stay by the roadside until you die or someone drags you home and hope to recover.

Get too drunk, trip on a pavement and knock yourself out? Too bad. You were know drinking too much can lead to accidents. Someone else might need the NHS resource you would use. Stay there until you either die or come round and drag yourself home.

Take a shortcut on a wet night down a dark alley, a well-known hang out for drug gangs, get stabbed? Too bad. You knew the risk and took it anyway. Someone else might need the NHS resource you would use. Bleed to death.

We all 'do wrong' sometimes, certainly in the eyes of certain MNers. We hope that society is caring enough to forgive us and allow us to use the safety net we support.

Not shite. Deliberately not trying to take responsibility for ones health then expecting the NHS to pick up the pieces is entitled.

And yes I would say the same to smokers.

@Hyperfish101

Not shite. Deliberately not trying to take responsibility for ones health then expecting the NHS to pick up the pieces is entitled.

And yes I would say the same to smokers.

Yes. ‘Entitled’ to the care you pay for through your taxes.

@Hyperfish101

People can do what they like I guess but the irony is if they get ill they will be expecting support from NHS services. Such an entitled attitude.

So is everyone who smokes drinks and eat unhealthy food also entitled if they expect support from NHS services?