Why aren’t the government doing more?! Are they trying to achieve herd immunity?!

[bootsandcats08]

Why the heck aren’t the government doing more? Don’t you think it’s getting ridiculous now?!

UK to has had the highest cases in Europe!
Are we supposed to just live like RBI’s now? Accept it?!

Surely this is much much worse than in March and back then a lockdown was imposed!! Why aren’t they doing more?!

Are they trying to just achieve some sort of herd immunity???

[quote bootsandcats08]@Tfoot75

What are you on about OP? There's no evidence that people with asthma are clinically vulnerable to covid

Have you looked at the NHS vulnerable category?! Asthma is listed!![/quote]
That was created before we knew anything about covid? Sorry, hear loads of people saying they are vulnerable or their kids are and it just isn't true. There's loads of data available now. Never seen a link between asthma as a comorbidity risk factor linked to covid and heard lots of people who work in the field saying it may be protective as people with asthma aren't being seriously affected. Please feel free to share here if you've seen some data showing people with asthma are vulnerable to covid.

I hope you all realise herd immunity may not be possible as many people who have had covid have no antibodies 4 weeks later?

ebm.bmj.com/content/early/2020/09/02/bmjebm-2020-111506 op this is a summary of available research, basically repeating what I've said, it was initially assumed to be a risk factor as it usually is with respiratory viruses. However the opposite has been found, though there may be a link between severity of covid and severe asthma, there are also indicators that it asthma has a protective effect. You should read all of the information n available and make your own risk assessment.

@Unsure33

I hope you all realise herd immunity may not be possible as many people who have had covid have no antibodies 4 weeks later?

So if, as you say, herd immunity isn’t possible and lockdown merely kicks the can down the road, what’s the alternative?

A vaccine. Or antivirals or other drugs that stop the virus or even prevent, but not natural herd immunity that may not ever be possible as it’s not possible with the flu or other viruses that mutate annually.
If people are waiting for natural herd immunity they are kidding themselves.

@Sb2012

A vaccine. Or antivirals or other drugs that stop the virus or even prevent, but not natural herd immunity that may not ever be possible as it’s not possible with the flu or other viruses that mutate annually. If people are waiting for natural herd immunity they are kidding themselves.

Absolutely I agree. Herd immunity as a concept is flawed.

Much as we all hope for better treatments and a vaccine there is no guarantee they will transpire.
The scientists have all said that a vaccine may not ever be possible. Or could take years. Then what?

[quote bootsandcats08]@Tfoot75

What are you on about OP? There's no evidence that people with asthma are clinically vulnerable to covid

Have you looked at the NHS vulnerable category?! Asthma is listed!![/quote]
actually asthma was on the vulnerable list, not extremely vulnerable, because it was a respiratory disease. Since the lists came about they are saying asthma sufferers aren't actually at much more risk.

@lockdownalli

I do think the government should bring back some restrictions (not total isolation) for those who were previously shielding due to vulnerabilities.

i have a friend who has really bad asthma, she is regularly hospitalised. She cannot drive and has been forced to get public transport to work. She feels she is risking her life every working day, as there are so many people on the bus without masks, often coughing.

I feel she should be able to stay at home on full pay until it is safe for her to get to work. The government appear to be very reluctant to make any small steps towards reducing the number of cases and it makes me wonder how bad things will have to get before action is taken.

You think your friend should stay at home on full pay? Until when? The virus isn't going away. I'm vulnerable to other illnesses, do I get to stay at home on full pay every time the flu season comes around?

Effective vaccine is a path to herd immunity; Herd Immunity is fine to aim for, but some paths are better than others.

I don't think anyone here opposes vaccines, do they?

I agree OP. When we locked down the number of people dying per day was approx the same as it is today. A week and a half later it was approx 700 per day. I know our trajectory isn’t exactly the same. But it could be similar? Where will be in 2 weeks time I dread to think

Maybe they are just waiting until we have hundreds dying every day so the public are in side again

Lockdown is a middle class luxury.

Well if people were cooperative with the rules as they stand we might have more chance of ‘living with the virus’. Failing to wear masks, keep socialising to minimum, hand washing etc will just cause infection rates to rise.

@bootsandcats08 are you in a job that hasn’t been affected by lockdown? Thousands have lost their jobs, thousands more have had their income cut. People can’t afford another lockdown and the government know this. There isn’t a lot they can do really. We need to live with this virus like we live with all the others, it isn’t fair to wreck so many lives when the majority aren’t at risk from COVID.

I’m hopeful there will be vaccine soon. If not I’m certain that our scientists will become more familiar with this virus and find treatments for it. Just like we can manage asthma with inhalers and diabetes with diet or insulin and even HIV.
In fact today I read about an antibody treatment entering phase 3 here in the U.K.
Today it was announced that hospital admissions have unfortunately drastically increased due to Covid, but on the other hand we are making progress towards beating the virus too.

@Hyperfish101

Well if people were cooperative with the rules as they stand we might have more chance of ‘living with the virus’. Failing to wear masks, keep socialising to minimum, hand washing etc will just cause infection rates to rise.

That’s not living with it though, that’s existing with it. We need to get back to normality soon to save jobs, lives and people’s futures.

@Tfoot75

ebm.bmj.com/content/early/2020/09/02/bmjebm-2020-111506 op this is a summary of available research, basically repeating what I've said, it was initially assumed to be a risk factor as it usually is with respiratory viruses. However the opposite has been found, though there may be a link between severity of covid and severe asthma, there are also indicators that it asthma has a protective effect. You should read all of the information n available and make your own risk assessment.

The article does not conclude that there is no risk...it may not have been as expected, but to say there is ' no evidence of people with asthma being clinically vulnerable', is slightly misleading. In the largest study mentioned in the article it says A large English cohort study (preprint, n=17 425 445) found that asthma was associated with an increased risk of in-hospital death from COVID-19 in both age-adjusted and sex-adjusted and ‘fully adjusted’ (for comorbidities) models, with risks higher in those with recent oral corticosteroid use ).....Corticosteroid use can be considered a proxy for disease severity in asthma, so it is unclear if corticosteroid use itself impacts risks...

It is true that the virus has impacted those with other underlying conditions far more than expected. It has also impacted people's on going health in ways that were not predicted.

When we discussed risk factors with ds's Drs, they concluded that the condition of his lungs, and his asthma, alongside other factors, would put him at extreme risk.

Didnt whitty also say it could be a series of lockdowns and restarts for a while . He said early on at the start.

Yes they absolutely did, with charts and graphs and everything, back in March. They said it over and over again but it appears hardly one was actually listening!!!

Arcadia
Lockdown is a middle class luxury.

Yes totally this^^^

They can’t be trying to achieve herd immunity as they must know that is a flawed concept. I think they are just trying to balance the economy and people’s expectations. I assume once cases are so high that hospitals and schools are overwhelmed that we will have to do more.

Lockdown is a middle class luxury.

It isn't the middle class who will suffer if we have no lockdown, the virus runs rampant and the services collapse.

@Hyperfish101

Well if people were cooperative with the rules as they stand we might have more chance of ‘living with the virus’. Failing to wear masks, keep socialising to minimum, hand washing etc will just cause infection rates to rise.

The truth is until we can’t treat or prevent this virus we will never go back to living a “normal” life that resembled pre lockdown life. All the people willing to risk not wearing masks or breaking laws how will that get you any closer to a normal life? You are still not allowed to holiday abroad without restrictions. You can’t eat out like we used to, no family days out to theme parks/zoos cinemas etc so what normal life are you living by saying you wont wear a mask?? What these selfish people don’t realise is that they may be willing to jeopardise the lives of others thinking they are immune to harm from the virus, however they fail to use common sense that despite being selfish we are in this together. The only thing they are achieving is possibly infected and harming the vulnerable. They most definitely aren’t living a “normal” life by breaking the law. Until the threat of the virus exists for the vulnerable and the NHS, life won’t be back to normal.

The government can't fix this. I don't think people can comprehend that.

We can’t lock down again because the effects on the economy will kill people. Why do you not care about them?

Op why should everyone lockdown to protect you when it will hurt others that cannot do anything about it? Your high BMI puts you at risk. You could have done something about that. Why did you not try and lose weight as soon as you realised it put you in a higher risk group.

Genuinely can't believe posters are still comparing this to flu. Feels like we've come full circle back to the end of March again.