Coronavirus outbreaks in England spreading mostly in schools

[herecomesthsun]

Link here

I know it is what many of us have been predicting for some months, so an all too familiar topic.

However, I thought some of you, maybe especially teachers or those from vulnerable families, might be interested in having the article flaaged up.

One case in my children's large high school and we are now 3 days from the end of term. Approx 20 cases a day across our entire region - mainly linked to a university or industry. No we should not be shutting schools.

[quote StatisticalSense]@PinkFondantFancy
There isn't if both parents are insistent on working 9-5 Monday to Friday but if one works 6-2 and the other 2-10 or some work is done at weekends it is possible and exactly what a lot of families who work in lower paid jobs have had to do for years in order to avoid paying for childcare.[/quote]
That is not possible long term ie until spring. Parents working every hour of the day and weekend while also caring for children and homeschooling. Everyone will have a breakdown. It’s unsustainable.

[quote hopsalong]@VillageGreenTree

Can you think of any examples where societies in the past put sick and elderly people ahead of children? I can't.

We should of course be doing everything in our power to protect the vulnerable. That's obvious. My point is that it goes against nature to make children pay to protect adults. By that I don't merely mean elderly or vulnerable people, but all adults. I would jump into a fast-flowing river and endanger my life if I saw a toddler who had fallen in, and most people would, I think, do the same. I wouldn't do this on rational reflection, but on instinct. I would only jump in to save an adult if I knew them and cared very deeply about them (or if the risk was very low).

Not only do children benefit much less than other people from lockdown, the cost to them is much higher. Are they willing to pay it? We aren't asking them. And they don't have votes. Is it fair to make decisions on their behalf that they will pay for for the rest of their lives? [/quote]
Societies in the past (beyond 150 years ago) did not have universal education in state-organised schools for all (this is of course a very good thing).

However, if there was a pandemic, even though people did not have a full understanding of pathogens, they would try and avoid other people who might be contagious. The court would leave London and people who had country houses who move there. Villages would seal themselves off. And so on.

It is very strange to be forcing families into a crowded situation where their children will catch the disease. Very odd.

Children from families where caregivers are vulnerable will suffer enormously if they are bereaved.

It would be possible to differentiate more than we are doing to account for different families' needs.

We can also put some energy into making schools safer, by funding extra space and extra staff for supervision.

We also don't know the long term effects of this virus (it binds strongly to receptors on the gonads, we just know, for example whether it will affect children's fertility long term.

There is also a suggestion that repeated exposure might have cumulative adverse effects, again we just don't know how that will play out.

So , I see the problems with lockdown (I agree there would be a lot of problems with another lockdown) but I think we should be planning to limit infections in schools if we possibly can, and we should be giving more choice to parents about home schooling, probably especially if there is vulnerability in the family.

We might need to decide as a society that we want to prioritise education and health over other areas right now, and look to redirect resources.

Can’t see this posted but might have missed it. Cases in schools settings

@Janevaljane

Or perhaps that teacher, like myself, is the sole carer for an elderly parent who they would rather not pass on the virus to.

In short:

Children must never be: too hot, too cold, too inconvenienced, responsible for their own learning in any way, prevented from
socialising, asked to do home learning, not given home learning, asked to wear masked, not asked to wear masks, kept at a social distance, taught by anyone in a mask or taught by anyone who has vulnerable relatives.

Is that about right?

But teachers must: never wear masks (even if vulnerable), never be in a room with another members of staff, never see friends or family, never have vulnerable relatives, never wear any PPE, never consider their own safety, never remind the children about Covid secure practises (in case it frightens then) and never, ever, ever worry about potentially getting sick and being financially stuffed.

Sounds about right, Belle

God knows why some people think their kids are so completely wet that they can’t cope with minor inconveniences or so self-absorbed that they wouldn’t put up with them to protect others.

@BelleSausage brilliant!

@noblegiraffe exactly.

I have two small Children in different childcare settings and am currently teaching face to face university students in a high risk area with huge numbers of cases in student populations. My life is like a house of cards waiting to crumble. I’m more worried about the impact on my reception age child’s learning and education than my own worries about getting covid at work (no PPE and small seminar rooms) but I am youngish and fairly healthy. If schools close down there’s no way I can look after my children and continue my work. My salary is needed to keep out household going and pay the mortgage. It would be career ending life ruining stuff.

My ds is self isolating for a week because his whole year group 'bubble' is off due to a positive case in the year (I don't know if it is someone he shares classes with). The home learning seems better organised including online classes, than it did during lockdown. He's logging on, but probably not getting much work done. He has ASD so struggles to focus. This was the first case so far in his school. They recently asked kids to wear masks arriving to school and between lessons and by the 3rd day, only 3 pupils out of 1200 forgot a mask, so I gather they are dealing with that ok. But it does seem a bit pointless when they are sat for hours at a time, maskless in a classroom! Dd said someone was sick in her classroom today . I'd be happier if they wore masks during lessons. I've seen pictures of classes in other countries and they can manage it, so why not here? Maybe not for nursery and primary school, but I think secondary school, where they move around more, they should.

My dd (8) said yesterday that it was ok the windows being open but it gets very noisy when other classes are playing outside, so it isn't just about the coldness.

@Napqueen1234
Snap. Are you me?
One of my recent students killed himself last week, and I have others with serious problems (mental health but also financial). I'm the only person they currently see face to face and I'm needed in that role. The easiest thing for me (and you, I imagine!) would be for university teaching to be all online while schools continue as usual. But then where would that leave the university students (paying their full fee)? I really despair. Are we as a society just hanging them out to dry, taking their money for shoddy college accommodation while offering no more than a few Zoom classes where they sit with their video and audio off while I speak into the void, libraries closed etc?

I know I can't do again what I did in the spring of working into the small hours every night while looking after my children all day. And I can't afford to leave my job. So, if it comes to it, I'll have to do a very shoddy job of my job, no pastoral care, and basically hang the students out to dry to take proper care of my own kids. But that feels terrible, especially after the sad news last week.

Because of the older student population, unis are allowing staff and students to wear PPE even in teaching and with distancing. Surprised to hear otherwise.

What’s wrong with giving people a choice?

If you wfh like me and would rather not take the risk you should be able to take your children out of school.

I’ve approached the local authority and headteacher and been told I’d be fined for taking Dd out for a while to protect her elderly granny who lives with us.

And I totally agree with BelleSausage.

I’m a single parent AND a carer for my elderly mum, I also work from home.

It totally pisses me off to hear the affluent and comfortable mums at school going on about how they don’t want schools to close so the can keep going to yoga or having lunch. Many just can’t be bothered to look afterwards their own children.

@NannyMcphee39
If parents are given the choice to keep their children home there will vulnerable, neglected and abused children whose parents will keep them home because they can't be bothered to get them to school.

I'm just astonished that when some people hear the word " global pandemic " they think that we can make it go away with a few simple decisions that are going to be easy for everyone.
Er .... people are going to get sick and die , the economy is going to be shot to pieces which means people are going hungry and homeless and kids education is going to suffer.
Sorry to be harsh but a few rich middle class mums pontifiications aren't going to save the world .
Its going to be a mess for years to come, no matter how long we stay home and post photos of our kids homeschooling on Instagram

There isn't if both parents are insistent on working 9-5 Monday to Friday but if one works 6-2 and the other 2-10 or some work is done at weekends it is possible and exactly what a lot of families who work in lower paid jobs have had to do for years in order to avoid paying for childcare.

Seriously, do you not understand how the working world works? Most people's jobs involve interacting with other people .... how does that work when people are Eurosong hours that are out of sync with the rest of their organisation?

I can imagine the response of my colleagues and students if i suddenly decided I was working 6-2 and weekends as that would mean they would need to work those hours too . I'm sure university students would love a 6am lecture .

Bloody clueless

Then they should mandate that those children attend school then! No doubt they will be under the school or social services so identifiable.

Meanwhile am I supposed to have my choices shut down and compromise my family’s safety? It’s absurd to think I could be prosecuted for protecting my family by removing my child from school temporarily.

That wasn't schools - the educational settings concerned focussed on universities.

@TheGreatWave

My dd (8) said yesterday that it was ok the windows being open but it gets very noisy when other classes are playing outside, so it isn't just about the coldness.

So are you suggesting that the necessary ventilation should be removed because, for fifteen to twenty minutes out if the school day, it's noisy?

I feel I have to point out that the only reason it would be noisy is because schools have adapted with staggered breaks in order to ensure every child at school still has the opportunity to play in an outdoor setting.

@NannyMcphee39

And I totally agree with BelleSausage.

I’m a single parent AND a carer for my elderly mum, I also work from home.

It totally pisses me off to hear the affluent and comfortable mums at school going on about how they don’t want schools to close so the can keep going to yoga or having lunch. Many just can’t be bothered to look afterwards their own children.

ODFOD.

My dd (8) said yesterday that it was ok the windows being open but it gets very noisy when other classes are playing outside, so it isn't just about the coldness.

My room is like that. A Reception class have a courtyard outside my room on one side which they use all day, another reception class have a yard the other side - again all day access.

I have to admit I've already been and asked both classes to have the junk can band and instruments removed as I can't hear myself teaching. But the noise from two classes of playing children all day can at times can get incredibly noisy, especially when I'm trying to give input.

The windows remain open but it's not just for 10-15 minutes at a time.

Yes that is exactly what I suggested. it is in that paragraph that no one else can see.

Children must never be: too hot, too cold, too inconvenienced, responsible for their own learning in any way, prevented from
socialising, asked to do home learning, not given home learning, asked to wear masked, not asked to wear masks, kept at a social distance, taught by anyone in a mask or taught by anyone who has vulnerable relatives.

This made me smile wryly! Yes quite. It seems some believe children should be entirely unaware of what is happening around them, rather than treated like equal members of society and helped to deal with the impacts of what is happening to all of us.