Coronavirus outbreaks in England spreading mostly in schools

[herecomesthsun]

Link here

I know it is what many of us have been predicting for some months, so an all too familiar topic.

However, I thought some of you, maybe especially teachers or those from vulnerable families, might be interested in having the article flaaged up.

[AlphaJura]

@Torvean32 I wouldn't moan about any of the measures you've spoken about. I actually emailed my dcs head to ask about adequate ventilation as they just mentioned a lot about disinfecting and hand washing. It's a respiratory virus, not salmolla or ecoli! My kids could wear a vest, also you do learn to acclimatise. I lived in houses without central heating until I was about 15. You get used to it! I think the kids (especially secondary) would be fine with masks in lessons. They recently said they had to wear them whilst walking around and the majority of kids (including my ds, he has Aspergers) took in their stride. By day 3, only 3 pupils forgot their mask out of 1200! Many young people wear them in the street, no problem and they don't have to.

The people most resistant to masks in my experience seems to be the 30-50 year old age group. Anti maskers and the like. Kids are more resilient than most people give them credit for. Every single elderly person I've seen in shops, including disabled, in mobility scooters has been wearing them.

[Ihatemyseleffordoingthis]

For me Education is only part of why schools being kept open. Mental health of young people being a massive one. But also for vast swathes of kids school is the most stable thing in their lives and it's where they get fed.

I think secondary could temporarily go part time and think an extended half term and winter break wouldn't be bad idea if it would break the cycle. It is better than an indefinite closure again at Xmas (my worst fear)

[MJMG2015]

@peachescariad

I Work in a secondary school. All staff and students must wear masks moving between lessons and any public area like queuing in canteen and kids can wear during lessons if they like. All kids sanitize their hands on entry and exit of classrooms.
Students are in year group bubbles and have their own zones outside and in canteen.
We have staggered breaks x 2. Got just over 1000 pupils. No cases.
My school is organised and on it.

No symptoms testing positive (yet) that's not the same as 'no cases'. Asymptomatic pass the virus to relatives, who pass it to workplaces, other family, to strangers on PT.

EDUCATION is the biggest transmission by far.

How many lives are we happy to lose to keep schools open?

[Torvean32]

Schools need to be keot going. Education is so important.

However any ideas that reduce risk have ppl moaning.

Keep windows slightly open - too unfair as it'll be too cold.

It barely gets cold south of the border.
Imagine when we were kids and had no heating upstairs at home.

Wear masks except at meals.
Kids can't concentrate and will fidget.
Facts- you get enough oxygen through a mask.
Staff wear them for 12 hours in other places.

[Autumngoldleaf]

Nellodee I agree, it's taken a bite this week and it's rock and hard place between warmth and the virus shell being weaker, and colder with ventilation, spreading the virus and perhaps reducing the load but also strengthening it with the fat shell.

Fun fun times.

[Autumngoldleaf]

I love Jk, we will be worse because as whitty said, the season is agaisnt us. We are are doing everything this virus loves!

Squashing together in small stuffy classrooms, window shut, it loves the cold it lasts longer...

Hospitals can't cope in a normal winter....

[Autumngoldleaf]

Older children would work because the school would be on them if they didn't.
That's how every other school has done it who went on line. The student isn't there at register? They get called, they don't answer or turn up, their care givers get a call and so on.

[IloveJKRowling]

I think after school clubs in schools are fine, because they don't mix bubbles to the same extent (most kids in schools do have some chain of contact even if not in same bubble via siblings etc).

Maybe businesses could figure out a way to do it with classes per school rather than mixing kids from all over.

It is unfair for business owners running these clubs, particularly since schools aren't implementing the measures that these clubs are, but look at where we're headed. The virus has got a very firm hold on us again - community transmission is rife. I wouldn't be surprised if we end up in a worse situation than April at this rate and once it gets bad enough the only choice to prevent bodies in corridors in the NHS will be lockdown.

I've cancelled all my daughters out of school activities but have told the business owners that I would pay (the same amount) for some form of remote / zoom class. None are doing it yet.

[SueEllenMishke]

Also, many out of school clubs are part of wrap around care. Many parents rely on these to be able to work.

[SoUtterlyGroundDown]

Most after school clubs haven’t restarted here. Then again, we haven’t had any cases yet in any of the three schools nearby either (two primary and one secondary).

[ceeveebee]

Where is the evidence of spread in out of school clubs? They aren’t even a category on the PHE charts?

[SueEllenMishke]

@IloveJKRowling

I also wish, if they really want to prioritise schools, that they'd just cancel all out of school clubs for now. It just doesn't make sense to allow spread between children from different schools in these settings - no rule of 6 applied in clubs.

But these represent people's livelihoods and often years and years of work and expertise.

I run a dance school and we have very clear guidance on how to operate in a Covid secure way. I've invested a lot of money to make it safe. Fortunately for me it's not my main source of income so I can afford to take a step back.
However, that's not the case for a number of other dance schools in my discipline.
Shut them down again and they won't reopen.

[Nellodee]

This last week, I really started to feel the cold in my fingers with the windows open. I’ve been a huge advocate for keeping them open and have educated all my students that the biggest thing we can do to protect ourselves is have good ventilation.

However, we are reaching the point at which we will have to choose between being ventilated and being able to write. Cases in schools are about to sky rocket because ventilation is the single key thing we can do to protect ourselves and we’re about to start shutting the windows.

If you think this half term has been disruptive, wait till you see the next half term. And no, I’m not being gleeful. It’s the black humour of someone who asks a kid where they’ve been tested and they grin and say “Um, a car park?” because they haven’t been tested at all.

[IloveJKRowling]

I also wish, if they really want to prioritise schools, that they'd just cancel all out of school clubs for now. It just doesn't make sense to allow spread between children from different schools in these settings - no rule of 6 applied in clubs.

[IloveJKRowling]

The data on positive cases in different age groups really only takes us so far to determining the risk in schools I think.

What the government is not doing is looking at is how many asymptomatic cases there are among children, and how much positive cases spread it (doing follow up on contact tracing) or looking at how seriously ill their contacts get if they catch it, which I think is important for teachers, parents, death rates and long covid rates.

Based on what I've read (like the S Korea study, the Princeton study - which shows transmission from children to household contacts - and just thinking about exposure scenarios) I'm thinking that older children are more likely to spread it to more people (they have more contacts) so are more important in terms of community transmission.

However, caregiving small children requires a lot of close contact - being sneezed on, breathed on, spat on, pissed on etc at close quarters. We know that viral load is important in terms of severity of disease (lancet paper on this - mortality increases with higher viral load www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30354-4/fulltext ) so I think in terms of primary school teachers (particularly lower years) and parents of small children, there is likely a higher risk of worse outcomes, though possibly less likely to catch it in the first place. This is particularly important for ECV teachers and parents.

We know that masks reduce viral load. Not very practical for parents but I think teachers should be wearing them. Especially when having to wipe bums, comfort crying children, dealing with yelling tantrums or otherwise getting close.

The discussion of viral load is completely absent from risk assessments in schools and it really shouldn't be - particularly for vulnerable teachers in those settings. It's important also in secondaries where teachers can't keep the fabled 2m away from all students at all times (as if) and when exposed to large numbers of students over a day.

[RationalOne]

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19roundup/2020-03-26#infectionsurvey

[ohthegoats]

What we also need is teacher stats - primary looks fine for the kids, but there are still adults there. It would be great if kids don't have it bigly enough to be v spready. Technical terms.

If teachers in primary are ok, then that might also improve confidence at home for people with younger children. It's a win win bit of data collection, but the danger for the gov is that it goes the other way. Ha.

[neveradullmoment99]

Also, dont think my 1st year boy would do much. He would never apply himself without someone over his shoulder and i would not be happy leaving them [ him and his s3 sister] to fend for themselves.
However, I do think they need to do something about schools as the pandemic worsens.

[neveradullmoment99]

@Beebeeboo2

Would the least worst option be to keep primary schools open so parents can work. Also rates are lower in under 15s.
Secondary schools blended learning with 2 days/week in school. Most don't need parents to stay home with them.
Universities to go remote as highest rates in 18-24?

I think you will find if parents are there, work wont be done! The most conscientious child will waver.

[noblegiraffe]

Furthermore, Chris Whitty showed data that confirmed that most increase in infections and most infections were in late teens and older

If you look at the slides from the briefing, no he didn't. He didn't show a slide that showed how many infections there were in those age groups.

He did show a slide of test positivity rate, which is not the same thing at all, but seems to have given some people the impression that it is.

[RationalOne]

@ceeveebee

Indeed - it's almost as if someone wants to skew the data to shut the schools. University is adults and completely different!

It would be more useful if the did 11-18 not 10-19, as that includes first year university students who account for well over half of infections in Manchester this week!

[RationalOne]

Furthermore, Chris Whitty showed data that confirmed that most increase in infections and most infections were in late teens and older and much small numbers in children and no deaths. So to the close the schools brigades not a chance for primary schools and even in the lower years in secondaries seem to be doing well when looking at actual data.

[RationalOne]

[quote ceeveebee]Here we go - ONS numbers from today
Biggest increase in uni age, then secondary school and primary still very low
www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveypilot/englandwalesandnorthernireland9october2020#age-analysis-of-the-number-of-people-in-england-who-had-covid-19[/quote]
Now this actual usable data is much more reliable that the stuff in the local newspaper as quoted by the OP with a mix of any old respiratory infections being recorded which is totally useless!

[RationalOne]

I have just looked at the link and the information in the graph states:

"The graph shows 782 acute respiratory infection (ARI) incidents broke out in the past week. An ARI could be Covid-19, influenza or any other respiratory pathogen."

So a mix of Covid, Flu and other respiratory pathogens and not broken down into which ones!

[Heartofstrings]

@StatisticalSense we do exactly this. Husband works 7am till 1pm. I work 1pm till 9pm. We are exhausted but it works. We have two preschoolers and their attendance has been shocking this term