Coronavirus outbreaks in England spreading mostly in schools

[herecomesthsun]

Link here

I know it is what many of us have been predicting for some months, so an all too familiar topic.

However, I thought some of you, maybe especially teachers or those from vulnerable families, might be interested in having the article flaaged up.

This made me smile wryly! Yes quite. It seems some believe children should be entirely unaware of what is happening around them, rather than treated like equal members of society and helped to deal with the impacts of what is happening to all of us

Seeing as my 7 and 5 year olds went 3 months without seeing their beloved grandparents who they usually see weekly, 3 months without seeing any of their friends, months without school, still haven’t been able to return to their piano lessons, dance classes and swimming lessons, had their birthday parties and their annual trip to see their paternal grandparents abroad cancelled, and could no longer be bridesmaids for their aunt as their wedding was cancelled, they’ve got a pretty good idea what is going on and why they need to make sacrifices for the benefit of society.

@SoUtterlyGroundDown

This made me smile wryly! Yes quite. It seems some believe children should be entirely unaware of what is happening around them, rather than treated like equal members of society and helped to deal with the impacts of what is happening to all of us

Seeing as my 7 and 5 year olds went 3 months without seeing their beloved grandparents who they usually see weekly, 3 months without seeing any of their friends, months without school, still haven’t been able to return to their piano lessons, dance classes and swimming lessons, had their birthday parties and their annual trip to see their paternal grandparents abroad cancelled, and could no longer be bridesmaids for their aunt as their wedding was cancelled, they’ve got a pretty good idea what is going on and why they need to make sacrifices for the benefit of society.

In which case it doesn't apply to you, but some people I know want things to be 'normal' for their kids and are therefore not following guidance in their lives.

• So how many parents and teachers in their 50s (perhaps some with underlying conditions like diabetes) is it worth dying or being long term disabled, just so no-one in school has to wear a thin piece of light fabric over mouth and nose?

Just so we're clear on what level of risk teachers are expected to put up with (because not only are they at direct risk but they'll be picking up the pieces of children bereaved) just so we can all be snowflakes about this?*

Oh do stop with the ‘teachers are lambs to the slaughter rhetoric’!

You do realise the number of working age people who have died from covid is extremely small, don’t you? If not, then please go away and look at the statistics. It may actually help to reduce your unnecessary fear about teachers dying if schools should stay open

You do realise the number of working age people who have died from covid is extremely small, don’t you? If not, then please go away and look at the statistics

Empathy bypass alert

Younger people are at risk of long term effects and serious illness.

Teachers are, in my opinion, being badly let down. I am not a teacher myself.

@RepeatSwan

*Children must never be: too hot, too cold, too inconvenienced, responsible for their own learning in any way, prevented from socialising, asked to do home learning, not given home learning, asked to wear masked, not asked to wear masks, kept at a social distance, taught by anyone in a mask or taught by anyone who has vulnerable relatives.*

This made me smile wryly! Yes quite. It seems some believe children should be entirely unaware of what is happening around them, rather than treated like equal members of society and helped to deal with the impacts of what is happening to all of us.

If they are unaware, good. They are kids and their life has changed beyond recognition.

They are children and young people. Adults should take the risk for children, not moan about how selfish kids are for not wanting windows open.

You do realise the number of working age people who have died from covid is extremely small, don’t you? If not, then please go away and look at the statistics

Empathy bypass alert grin

No, facts. Long Covid is a post viral illness thst happens to people with viral illnesses ALL the time. As a matter of fact, I've just sponsored a friend who ran the marathon on Sunday. She had Covid in April. It's not always a) a death sentence or b) life changing.

R4 Professor Semple talking about - primary school children not amplifying cases. That does sound better than the opposite. Secondary a balance of risks.

My DDs school has had 4 cases in school, all students in different years. Bubbles have been sent home. There has been no transmission to other students/staff. So is it really ‘spreading in schools?’

Our large (1700 students) local state had 2 confirmed cases in the first week and none since.

Adults should take the risk for children, not moan about how selfish kids are for not wanting windows open.

Adults, including vulnerable adults should take the risk of catching a deadly disease because a kid doesn't want the window open?

Put a vest on your kid FFS. Stop with the cotton-wool wrapping. Kids are not made of glass.

Why don't you have some empathy with kids? Keep the window open but at least try to understand why life's a bit shit for them. Stop making them feel they are responsible for the possible deaths of vulnerable adults.

So Sewsosew, do you think the government's data is incorrect because you haven't seen with your own eyes outbreaks in local schools? Do you think that other schools are making this up just for fun?

The highest transmission rates according to school data is infection of pupils secondary school age. Our local large secondary school has had one confirmed case since school started and no transmission to anyone else, but it doesn't stop me from having the knowledge that other schools are badly affected, especially those with high rates of infections.

Universities have the highest infection rates.

Or, recognise that primary schools are NOT driving infection and nor are younger secondary age groups. Age 14+ and teachers, however, are responsible for some spread. Further education are students meanwhile are driving huge increases in figures. Instead of muddying the waters by talking about "schools", people should be focusing debate on how to reduce and prevent spread from the groups actually spreading. Interestingly, most issues with wearing masks and studying from home part-time don't even apply to those age groups, so getting the correct focus makes finding solutions easier.

So Sewsosew, do you think the government's data is incorrect because you haven't seen with your own eyes outbreaks in local schools? Do you think that other schools are making this up just for fun?

I imagine it's very localised, which is why a national school lockdown would be ridiculous.

@MRex

Or, recognise that primary schools are NOT driving infection and nor are younger secondary age groups. Age 14+ and teachers, however, are responsible for some spread. Further education are students meanwhile are driving huge increases in figures. Instead of muddying the waters by talking about "schools", people should be focusing debate on how to reduce and prevent spread from the groups actually spreading. Interestingly, most issues with wearing masks and studying from home part-time don't even apply to those age groups, so getting the correct focus makes finding solutions easier.

Good post. It's spreading quickly through dds uni because they were being idiots and having house parties. Now that's all calmed down and they are dutifully sitting in their bedrooms doing lectures online and wearing masks everywhere its all levelling off a bit.

Those who sneer that long covid is the same as other post-viral conditions are ill-informed, sadly.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/04/long-covid-the-evidence-of-lingering-heart-damage

Key sentence here: Cardiologists say that Covid-19 has been different, both because of the much larger numbers of patients likely to be affected – there have been more than 32 million reported cases of Covid-19 as of 24 September, while Sars and Mers only affected 8,098 and 2,519 people respectively – and the greater extent of damage it leaves.

I started a thread on this today asking what research is being done in the UK. We have much yet to learn.

I wish it will be nothing to worry about, but wishing doesn't make it so.

Many are grasping for certainty, for understandable psychological reasons, but certainty isn't here yet, it's too early.

Why don't you have some empathy with kids? Keep the window open but at least try to understand why life's a bit shit for them. Stop making them feel they are responsible for the possible deaths of vulnerable adults.

Fuck off with suggesting that that's what I'm doing.

How about stopping suggesting that adults should take every possible risk for your child so that they don't have to suffer even the slightest discomfort. BUY THEM A VEST. It really isn't hard.

@Janevaljane

Universities have the highest infection rates.

Those infections are generally in accommodation not on campuses - yet.

Those who sneer that long covid is the same as other post-viral conditions are ill-informed, sadly

Who is sneering?

Noone - NOONE - knows what the physical impact of covid may be.

All we know is what we see currently. Not everyone who contracts Covid suffers for months.

According to the Weekly Covid Surveillance Report
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/923668/Weekly_COVID19_Surveillance_Report_week_40.pdf, p.16 , the institution with the highest rate of outbreaks are Educational Settings. And out of the educational settings, on p. 18 , you will find that the outbreaks for primary and second is much, much higher than the cases at Universities. Universities are getting lots of media attention at the moment, but they are not the place where there's the most outbreaks.

Obviously the data has to be considered carefully as an 'outbreak' can be anything from 2 cases to 20+ cases.

Stop making them feel they are responsible for the possible deaths of vulnerable adults

I am sure (virtually) no teachers would do this. I am sure there is one example somewhere but we have to look at the hard work teachers are putting in across the country to make children feel ok.

But the fact of the matter is more transmission = more serious illness and death, and schools open = more transmission.

So collectively we have to face up to that then choose to change something or accept it. I personally don't feel it is ethically ok to just accept it.

Who is sneering?

Many threads have remarks that are very dismissive of long covid, including this thread.

They use false comparison, minimisation and rationalisation to imply it isn't something to worry about.

It is something to worry about.

@QueenBlueberries - the actual figures don't work out like that. The average primary school has 281 students and the average university has 14,500 students. An outbreak can be just 2 students/ teachers. Some universities currently have outbreaks the size of every single student from 5 primary schools. Just 1% of primary schools have had more than 2 cases in the last month. At least 32% of universities have outbreaks and they are big. The figures keep being put up again and again and again - it is ages 14-29 that have the majority of infections and growing rapidly. That problem cannot be fixed with whataboutery of a few primary age kids infected by their parents and admin staff infecting each other.