Coronavirus outbreaks in England spreading mostly in schools

[herecomesthsun]

Link here

I know it is what many of us have been predicting for some months, so an all too familiar topic.

However, I thought some of you, maybe especially teachers or those from vulnerable families, might be interested in having the article flaaged up.

Surely we want to stop getting to the point where there are multiple deaths including children

This answer makes me very sad for the children who would be bereaved.

Which children?

Most parents of school aged children (or frankly even teenagers and young adults) are not in the at risk categories.

The biggest risk factor by a million miles is age. Data proves that right across the board.

@Twattergy

Can't believe that some people are seriously suggesting schools should close and talking about home learning as if it is some simple and equivalent alternative. Closing schools should be the absolute last resort.

This a hundred times.

And I say that as an independent school parent who's teens have good wifi and individual laptops.

This is where we need effective track and trace. I read the article and unfortunately it doesn't show that it is definitely spreading in schools. A school near me has 2 confirmed cases but there is no evidence that it is spreading between the children, those cases both picked up the virus elsewhere. It's not enough to say that there is an outbreak in a school what we need to know is whether it is then getting transferred at all and for that we need to track cases.

Schools are essential. They represent the future of this country, they are a generation already challenged by the follies of their parents generation politically, economically, environmentally and socially. If it means restrictions on socialising then so be it.

@Eng123

Schools are essential. They represent the future of this country, they are a generation already challenged by the follies of their parents generation politically, economically, environmentally and socially. If it means restrictions on socialising then so be it.

This is when I repeat my plea for Mumsnet to install a 'like' button.

Many parents of teenagers are in their fifties, as are many teachers. If hospitals become full, the fatality rate will increase and we could see many deaths in this age category. I love my job, but i don’t love it enough to have to watch my colleagues die if they don’t have to. There has to be a point at which we decide this is too risky.

I've seen loads of discussion on this subject but no-one ever seems to address what else could be done to make schools safer. (Not a dig at you, OP, but the politicians etc who make the rules).

The choice put forward seems to be keep schools open as they are (with minimal PPE and no substantial changes to resources) or close them/make pupils go part time. I entirely understand that to keep the infection rate manageable and avoid overwhelming the NHS we need to do something but the options that seem to be on the table are keep schools open and shut other sectors of the economy, or remove pupils from the classroom to keep the hospitality sector going. What about spending some time and money looking at ways to get pupils in school in smaller classes/bubbles (ie more than individual schools can do, where they are limited to their existing staff, classrooms and budgets), ways to improve ventilation in schools (other than just opening windows to let the rain in), making masks etc mandatory unless eating (teachers are currently told that they must not wear masks in school- even though anyone who has been on a school will tell you that it's impossible to stay 2m away from the children and some teachers see mix with multiple bubbles). There's a lot that could be done with some effort from the Government but not much more that individual schools can do at the same time as teaching in school, making the same learning available to pupils not in school etc.

The idea that sending children home from school helps the economy is at best flawed- how many parents will end up out of a job if they don't have child care? How many small businesses that are already close to the edge will go under if the owner is caring for children all day? Not to mention how many healthcare workers will be unavailable to staff hospitals.

one secondary school in our area has had several cases (more than any other in the town and there are 4 or 5 more) and they have mixed TG of years 7 to 11 and the kids act normally moving round the school. A huge number catch the school bus there too. It seems to me the schools who are organized properly are fairing better so it is as much about processes as the virus

A few things missing from the original data posted by OP. I'd like to know how many cases are transmitted within the home, from one family member to another. The data only includes cases in 'institutions'.

@PinkFondantFancy
There isn't if both parents are insistent on working 9-5 Monday to Friday but if one works 6-2 and the other 2-10 or some work is done at weekends it is possible and exactly what a lot of families who work in lower paid jobs have had to do for years in order to avoid paying for childcare.

I agree on the importabce of education, also agree lets make schools as safe as possible

Also, the data tracks 'outbreaks', not number of cases (as some cases will be a one-off with no transmission within the institution).

I love my job, but i don’t love it enough to have to watch my colleagues die if they don’t have to. There has to be a point at which we decide this is too risky.

Agreed.

At the moment the UK is saying that it's worth some teachers and parents losing their lives just so children don't have to wear a thin piece of fabric over nose and mouth indoors all day.

Community levels are now too high to prevent spread in schools (particularly since out of school clubs etc are still running too). That ship has sailed.

This is our decision, despite the fact that many, many children in other countries are wearing masks and have done for some time, with no problems (well, in Israel they had coronavirus outbreaks when they took them off of course).

Our children would cope fine with masks, they'd probably welcome it - in the main - if it was explained that it was helping to keep teachers and parents safe. Instruction on how to do properly - like handwashing - would ensure the maximum benefit. There is no way it could be worse than what they have now.

How many avoidable deaths (which we could avoid by wearing masks) is it worth?

And how are bereaved children going to feel when they grow up and realise that if everyone had just worn masks in schools that they might have had their parent for another 30 years?

When they compare the data on deaths in their parent's age group to those in say S Korea where all schoolchildren wear face coverings.

Teachers have children too - and are being exposed to an unacceptable risk not seen in any other workplace. I think they should strike, and refuse to work in an environment where masks aren't mandatory (as they are for pretty much every other workplace).

Many parents of teenagers are in their fifties, as are many teachers. If hospitals become full, the fatality rate will increase and we could see many deaths in this age category. I love my job, but i don’t love it enough to have to watch my colleagues die if they don’t have to. There has to be a point at which we decide this is too risky.

Being in your fifties does not make your risk of death high. It is still minimal.

My daughter school teachers have been provided with visors, masks and gloves. But every pick up I notice the staff don’t all wear them! I just don’t understand this? My daughter mentioned her class teacher who was shielding last time takes hers off during the day.
We parents all supported and requested that the staff are protected but don’t understood why they take it off...

My daughter is in a private school..for the context

1.3% chance of death if aged between 50 and 59 I believe.

One of my dds teachers wears full PPE and it makes the pupils feel really uncomfortable. Obviously it's her right to do so.

Compared to a 15% risk of death in your eighties.

@QueenBlueberries does it track transmission

So you have a village and within that village is a school. If the village has coronavirus the school would show that there is an outbreak or a cluster because a large proportion of the village is linked to the school.

Does the village have coronavirus because of the school or is the school the place that it is easy to show has coronavirus because the data is measured.

[quote StatisticalSense]@PinkFondantFancy
There isn't if both parents are insistent on working 9-5 Monday to Friday but if one works 6-2 and the other 2-10 or some work is done at weekends it is possible and exactly what a lot of families who work in lower paid jobs have had to do for years in order to avoid paying for childcare.[/quote]
Just because people are wfh it doesn't mean they can choose their own hours. It very much depends on the job you are doing, neither of us could choose to work outside standard office hours as the people we deal with would not be available.

To close or not to close is not the question.
My teenage son is fully capable to work on his own. I am working from home and can help him. I am clinically vulnerable and covid for me can be life-threatening. Why should I risk my health and wellbeing of my son for the sake of ""Keep the schools open" rethoric?

Stop the fines and let me choose home learning without losing the school place. I am not even asking the school to provide materials. And the classroom will have a bit more empty space if he stays at home, making everyone a bit safer.

No, the school won't have it.
Absolute stupidity.

So how many parents and teachers in their 50s (perhaps some with underlying conditions like diabetes) is it worth dying or being long term disabled, just so no-one in school has to wear a thin piece of light fabric over mouth and nose?

Just so we're clear on what level of risk teachers are expected to put up with (because not only are they at direct risk but they'll be picking up the pieces of children bereaved) just so we can all be snowflakes about this?